Forum: The Neverborn
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Thread: Tactica: Lilith
09-07-2010, 10:55 AM #41
10-20-2010, 07:45 PM #42
Right, so I'm considering sticking with Lilith, since I do like Neverborn fluff in general.
Now, I was wondering if you guys could provide me with a list of models that are viable to be fielded in a band with Lilith as Master.
Thanks in advance.
11-05-2010, 05:48 PM #43
I was thinking of using this force for a 35pt game.
My plan was to keep the lelu and lititu up front, to do the majority of the fighting, with nekima and lilith right behind or possibly on a flank.
The tots would sit back untill they could be grown.
I figure the lelu/lititu would be able to kill enough to have a good advantage by the time the tots are mature.
*EDIT I would want the cherub in there as well.
Granted I'm a beginner that hasn't played yet. I also think having a shaman would be good too.
Last edited by Leojond; 11-05-2010 at 06:15 PM.
11-06-2010, 12:56 AM #44
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- Feb 2010
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Just my personal opinion, but the point of Lilith crew is that Lilith does the fighting.
The point of Nekima is that she does the fighting even better than a Mature Nephilim would and supports the crew on the top of that. Most of her bonuses are auras, so she needs to be in the thick of things, with all the Nephilim more or less packed around her.
I think squeezing both Nekima and the siblings into same list is the new-toy syndrome. Once you take all the new stuff, there's not enough flesh in the list to fight a regular battle.
You need the Nephilim both to grow into the Young and then Mature, and to summon Lelu or Lelitu if one of the two gets killed. You also need them to spread around and grab the objectives, because your other models may have to stay close to maintain their synergy.
Lelu and Lelitu do nothing for growing your Terror Tots and the process itself isn't easy. In a list that takes the two, you probably want at least 1 Young Nephilim and 3 or more Tots. Young+Lelu+Lilith will probably stack enough counters early on to get some growing going. 2 Young would be even better, as you can quickly mature one.
Whether you go with Lelu and Lelitu or Nekima, a Waldgeist is still going to be anexcellent addition to the crew - skip him only if there's no forest whatsoever on the table. If you are low on points, swap one Young for a Waldgeist whenever you see the forest.
Cherub is IMHO the best totem Lilith can take, but it is a totem that works best once you understand the positioning game Lilith plays. For a beginner player Primordial Magic is easier to use - bigger hand means bigger margin of error in resource management and you don't need to know the game very well to profit from the Primordial Magic's abilities.
Nekima, utility-wise, is kind of a mirror to Lelitu. Lelitu hangs back and draws opponents towards your crew or pushes ahead in cover and pulls the crew towards the fight to make it even faster.
Nekima on the other hand charges headfirst and then throws the models she's done with back towards your second line, so that they can finish them off without exposing themselves. She also has some major mobility of her own, augmented if there are Nephilim fighting and dying around her.
Taking both gives some major pushing possibilities, but as it can be seen in your list, you are too thin on Nephilim to profit from that (who will you toss and lure these weakened opponents to? 2 Terror Tots?). Other than utility, Nekima is first and foremost a killing machine.
Black Shaman looks great on paper, but he's horribly slow. Lelu is a bit slowish for a Lilith crew, the shaman beats even him. Ride Nephilim is a synergy ability designed to overcome that problem, but you have to take Mature Nephilim and you have to commit him to carrying the shaman around. That almost excludes Nekima (at least in 30~35SS bracket) and makes him impractical in Lelu/Lelitu list that wants multiple small Nephilim around.
Granted, the shaman wants to be close to the combat, so it isn't all bad, but I personally want no obstacles in playing movement to my advantage, since a Nephilim crew wins through movement. Anyway, should I take him, I'd probably design a list with 2 Mature Nephilim and either some Youngs or multiple Terror Tots.
Masters & Henchmen: LilithNB, NicodemR, MollyR, ColetteA
12-02-2010, 11:47 AM #45
If you have the points for it, a Dopplganger works well with Neki. It increases the range of her auras and gives the 'Ganger a really ugly melee weapon.
12-10-2010, 11:20 AM #46
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- Nov 2010
- Rapid City, South Dakota
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After playing Lillith for several games I have begun to notice some things about her that I feel should be mentioned. These mostly apply to melee focused crews.
1. It was mentioned in an earlier post that it is not nessisarily the best idea to advance as quickly as possible with Lillith. My first two games against the Vics had Lillith dying on turn 2 and 3 because I ran as quickly as possible to engage, and got close enough for them to bring the hurt on Lillith.
I have found it to be better to move up the field and take a defensive position in terrain that slows the opponent, but can be ignored by Lillith, Young and Mature Nephillim, Sillurids using leap, Waldgeists and Terrortots using scout, etc. A melee crew will usually advance towards you. I find that using a lesser model to keep the enemy stuck in difficult terrain allows me to charge with Lillith. While her defense is very high, it is much better to give the charge than to recieve it.
2. Transposition is awesome but needs to be used intelligently. It has won me games. I have found that transposing an already activated enemy beatstick into melee range of several unactivated models can be very effective. I did this to Bishop last night and managed to take him down without taking any wounds from him. He charged and injured a waldgeist, and then found himself surrounded by Lillith, two sillurids, and another waldgeist. Lillith still had two actions left.
Transposition can also be used well against masters that are not melee oriented. I transposed Lillith and Johan the other night against Collette, which put me into melee range of her. She was already pretty injured and did not want to risk being killed while disengaging due to Lillith's "wicked" abillity. So she switched with Cassandra. Next turn I won initiative and killed Cassandra before she could activate.
3. Defense of 8 or 10 and 10 wounds is excellent, but a dedicated melee master can still one shot her if they are holding the red joker and use it for damage. My first two games had the vics killing Lillith, once with a red joker cheated for the damage flip. After these experiences I have learned to try to keep the vics apart via transpostion as much as possible.
Last night I charged a vic and hurt it badly but it survived. Two extremely wounded vics did 8 wounds to Lilith after cheating and soul stone usage on both sides.
4. This may have been said earlier, but I will say it again. In a fight against another melee army, it has been my experience that it is better to attack with another model before Lillith. This will keep the other melee beat stick from charging. And then use Lillith to charge. Lillith is also very good for counter charging other models.
5. Not really Lillith specific, but useful still. If the enemy has a model that is a really large melee beat stick type model. (Steamborg Executionor, etc. ) Pick the scheme "grudge" with that model, as it will most likely be running towards you and attempting to kill you anyway. I hit my opponents steamborg with a terrortot using flay, and did 5 wounds to it. He activated and used his "knock aside and free charge abillity" very well, killing a terror tot and a young nephilim, but putting him near Lillith. She finished him off. Total soul stone cost of the borg is 10, he killed 9 points worth of models, but gave me a victory point due to grudge.
Hope this all helps.
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