Best Guild master ...

[Odin1981]

It is interesting to see Odin1981's opinion of the Guild, and would love to see how some of the battles played out.

I have only played against the Neverborne with Guild once (I did win against Lynch), but my local group Guild players do not do well against the Neverborne, be it the Dreamer or Zoraida. The Stiched fog is a nasty defense against most shooting, and they get out moved and out melee'd. Last weekend Zoraida 8-0ed a solid Guild player in turn 3, and I saw Dreamer wipe out 8 of 9 Sonia models by turn 2 on route to another 8-0 win.

It just seems that all Neverborne abilitites focus on living models (terror, blood, etc).

I would never in my wildest dream use sonia against neverborne unless it were a fun game (lol neverborne and fun game) maybe just maybe if I knew the player only had dora I would use sonia but that is the only time I would. If they play stitched dita kills them fine in melee for no reprisal. However if they play doppleganger that is the first thing you must kill. You will normally have to win initative to kill stitched so they don''t 2 for 1 activation with them. Against ortega's (ie the good ones not the entire crew) stitched due about nothing unless they have been hit by a madness first. Also the wp duel they have since you are the defender is wp 8 against the base lowly attribute for stitched which is 6 (good luck on not hitting yourselves with that wp-wp duel stitched).

I personally would not use hoff against borne but you could but the blanket i2i on hoff models can be removed fairly easily or entirely by their master choice (pandora). Dita hard comps dora unless the dora player is damn near pro level (if you run up to a great dora player its a coinflip basically who gets in first 3 shots with dita or mental anguish trigger from dora). The one constant with the borne faction is wp related abilities and effects (slow, poison, paraylized) if you build a a crew based around contesting that type action (austringers, ortegas, sue, stalkers and such forth) and don't go a route that often has been common in the last few years heavy i2i + nonliving options you will find surprising results. Also we are the only faction with both dispell magic as well as shrug off and it really helps against neverborne.

A while back pokie I and a few other vets to guild did a collaboration thread I made on playing against neverborne put a search for it or start checking pages in guild forum from like page 14 or farther back. It is outdated (back from the book 2 days) but most holds true still. The majority of neverborne lists I face normally have a sizeable point limit % of book 2 models. Book 3 gave them dolls + tuco. I would make a gander book 4 gave them beckoners but it is still too early to see what else they picked up.

Also in reply to the poster (mcmorning son I believe?) in the book 1 days guild (perdita), leve, pandora, and if I remember correctly viks where the masters most often you would see place in big events/complained about. Since then the placings with guild have dried up. But if I ever where to get involved in a pick your masters irregardless of faction and play I guarentee you one of the three lists I would use would be my often favored dita list (colette and more than likely a coin flip of either a viks crew build or my newly picked up aZoraida crew would be my other two). I lurked on these forums for around 6 months before joining but I started playing around a similiar time that joe from cheated fates started playing so I have seen the game change quite a bit (half the games I play I'm often scared I remember a rule incorrectly due to a previous version existing of it lol).

[i_was_like_you]

Off topic, but:

That mis-remembering of previous versions is why I had hoped the Rules Manual would have had an index clarifying old way vs new way of a rule or ability. Instead, go to look for a rule, it's not there. Hunt through the forums, still no luck. Did the rule change or get deleted or what?!

That's why I'm glad all of the errata and clarifications have been applied to actual stat cards for Dreamer and Hamelin. It takes a lot of the guess work out of them.

[Trevelyan]

I don't want this to turn into a what is the best faction debate because I am sure it is in this forum somewhere, but any faction with Dreamer and Zoraida will do well. These 2 masters are well rounded, powerful masters who can do it all - well! To make matters worse, the Guild tend to match up poorly against the Neverborn. Terror causing fast crews do well against the Guild, and all of the Neverborne fit into that catagory.

I beat Dreamer with Hoffman only a few nights ago. I wouldn't fear Zoraida with a construct crew either. And the last tournament I played in (actually the only tournament I played in) saw Hoffman on top.

I think the real issue with tournaments is that a lot of them seeme to be fixed crew, or at least fixed master with limited crew selection, when Malifaux works best at a faction level.

Plus, of all the factions, the Guild is by far the most predictable. Guild does gunlines with a little melee. Hoffman's constructs are about as different as a guild crew gets. Individual models tend to be good value for the ss cost, but they rarely do anything other than walk and fight. Contrast that with Neverborn which have a reputation for speed and good melee damage, but can drop a disturbing number of other tricks on the table. And Outcasts (my other faction) don't even have what you'd call a defining playstyle (Levi is practically a faction to himself!).

[Odin1981]

Leve, Pandora, and hamelin are basically a game within a game due to their mechanics in how they operate.

In reply to I was yeah that would have been nice, something like every change wyrd does when the rules get updated put what changes first show old then show new version so old players don't think they are too old skirting around worring about alzeimers lol.

[i_was_like_you]

@Odin, 'Faux-zeimers?

I remember when I started playing Malifaux, all the models were metal, and ya had to buy yer totem separately. You whippersnappers have it easy.

[Odin1981]

Thunderous applause of clapping .

God I still have nightmares about what book 1 and few months of book 2 paralized use to do shudder in corner .

[Omenbringer]

Venturing off topic with this one but...

Against ortega's (ie the good ones not the entire crew) stitched due about nothing unless they have been hit by a madness first.

I wouldn't say Stitched Together do nothing against the Ortega's, they throw up a wonderful obscuring aura that can shut down the Ortega's pretty cold unless they venture in or Alpha Strike with initiative.

I would also say that Pandora (even in the hands of an average player) is closer than implied (though definately one of the more balanced encounters in the game).

[Odin1981]

Obey, walk into melee swing or flurry depending on model with a wp 8 when stubborn fransico doesn't mind, i2i perdita gunfightering doesn't mind after a walk or two. Stitched our a pain if you all gunline don't get me wrong but I believe the best guild lists are combined arms so they don't get hosed against obscuring effects.

If people base their lists around a gunline yes they will have issues against at least one crew from each faction if not more in the game. But personally I would hate to play any guild list regardless of said master that is based around pop pop bang.

[Omenbringer]

Except Perdita will lose Immune to Influence when with in 12" of Pandora thanks to The Box Opens and then her Wp is only 7. Throw in the flip from Project Emotions: Pity (which of course will be cheated and soulstoned until sucessful) and all of a sudden that Stitched Together has a real good chance of removing an Ortega or two with Gamble Your Life (and with the extra Wound from Emotional Trauma even Santiago with Hard to Kill functioning falls to severe damage).

Killing Pandora in three shots will be difficult as she can always Martyr a Linked Sorrow (or three) and Prevent Damage via that large Soul Stone Pool she'll have.

Also the Stitched form a rather effective wall against melee/ranged strikes for the crew even in the turn they are killed (since they aren't Sacrificed until the Resolve Effects Step). Francisco's Flurry may help insure he kills one of them but it also limits him to only performing melee strikes on that one model (no matter how dead it gets or if it dies in the first hit).

Dont get me wrong it isn't a cake walk for the Pandora player (like it can be against some crews) however the two crews really do counter each other rather well (especially with the addition of the Stitched Together).

I believe the best...lists are combined arms so they don't get hosed

In this we definately agree, thankfully the Guild can pull these off very nicely.