Gencon Masters Tournament Predictions

[rancor709]

That's what I thought too originally. That the Cache size functioned as a balance mechanism. The more powerful the master the lower the cache size. I personally belive there is a little of that, but the final cache sizes got influenced much more by fluff than balance.

In my opinion, and experience, the Outcasts are a special case, as in most cases they have a number of exceptionally powerful, generally rule breaking abilities (at least as of the first book). That isn't to say that they couldn't perhaps be tweaked. However, fluff is one of the things that influenced cache size, and I personally feel that during the initial design of the game the true power of SS in the game wasn't clearly understood (How could it be, they were building a game from scratch). Otherwise I think you'd have a hard time arguing why game balance wise it's fair that Seamus and Ramos have Caches of 2 while Pandora and Zoraida have Caches of 5. It is certainly a factor of why the NB do so well, as until the release of Mr. Lynch the lowest cache any NB master had was 4, and most had effectively 5.

Look at McMorning. Certainly he, himself, is a solid master, but what, in my opinion, is one of the key things that makes him a really soild choice is his cache size. With the monster cache he beings with he can bring almost the full SS allotment of minions, and also start the game with 8 stones. SS become gold anytime a master has to directly interact with enemy models whether as attacker or defender. Even more importantly, if the opposing master has greater access to stones than yours does you are at a serve disadvantage to affect or defend against the opposing master. Cache size really dominos into so many other things it really deserves a thread of its own for those desiring to talk about it.

That would be a discussion id like to have in terms of starting caches. Mcmourning is excellent but add in his 6 stones and he is stupid strong

[DarcXON]

That would be a discussion id like to have in terms of starting caches. Mcmourning is excellent but add in his 6 stones and he is stupid strong

Yes, in as far as I can tell with my knowledge of game balance, the cache was based on Fluff and what they would "need" for their abilities. I believe the main reason McMourning got six is because they expected him to get body parts from them. Again assuming that people would want to have body parts early and then did not expect anyone would attack their own models for body parts. Easy mistake to make when you consider how hard it is to play test so many models.

But, it also feels like the more points they are allowed to bring, the more they can cover themselves against any tricks that my rezzers can bring to the table. I do not mean that to sound like I believe in any way that its some sort of automatic loss, just that its proportionally more difficult. (Also not trying to be "the whining rezzer" here, just framing this from my perspective)

Agreed, and the worst thing is the fact that it is so subtle to the Neverborn players that it's hard to explain it to them.

But I will grant that even down to 25SS lists, that the twins make a 14 point block of model that is tough to match in utility for the points, so its sort of rough at any level. But at least at lower points, if they take the twins and maybe tuco, they are not necessarily getting to fill out their lists with as many stitched and other "mess with my head" models as they do at higher levels

Also agreed.

[Korrosion]

But I will grant that even down to 25SS lists, that the twins make a 14 point block of model that is tough to match in utility for the points, so its sort of rough at any level. But at least at lower points, if they take the triplets, they are not necessarily getting to fill out their lists with as many stitched and other "mess with my head" models as they do at higher levels.[COLOR=Silver]

Fixed it for you.

I think I enjoy the 25ss games as much as or more then the 35ss games because the number of models I can bring is so much more limited. I really have to plan for the Strategy/Schemes and care less about killing the opponents models. I think that defense/summoning/crew resilience become more important as the game size becomes smaller.

[Forar]

It's funny, but I agree about leaning towards smaller cap games myself. They're easier to get done more quickly, and I find I have to make much harder choices in what I bring to the table. My SS cache is often under the cap, and it becomes a challenge to get everything I want in terms of support and striking power at the same time.

But as noted before, I also generally play guild, so my bread and butter are 4-7 ss apiece (aside from Hoffman's ride, of course), whereas crews that rely on one or even more 9-14+ ss figures obviously feel that 5-10 reduction a lot.

Especially when there's a non-zero risk one of your local outcasts will field Ashes & Dust, a Desolation Engine and Jack Daw or Rusty Alyce at the same time. O.O (not that such a combo is unstopable, but any conversation that begins with "just so we're all friends at the end..." is clearly going downhill fast).

Sure it's easy to out-activate them, but it's a cluster-...shenanigans trying to do anything but throw meat into the grinder.

[Korrosion]

It's funny, but I agree about leaning towards smaller cap games myself. They're easier to get done more quickly, and I find I have to make much harder choices in what I bring to the table. My SS cache is often under the cap, and it becomes a challenge to get everything I want in terms of support and striking power at the same time.

But as noted before, I also generally play guild, so my bread and butter are 4-7 ss apiece (aside from Hoffman's ride, of course), whereas crews that rely on one or even more 9-14+ ss figures obviously feel that 5-10 reduction a lot.

Especially when there's a non-zero risk one of your local outcasts will field Ashes & Dust, a Desolation Engine and Jack Daw or Rusty Alyce at the same time. O.O (not that such a combo is unstopable, but any conversation that begins with "just so we're all friends at the end..." is clearly going downhill fast).

Sure it's easy to out-activate them, but it's a cluster-...shenanigans trying to do anything but throw meat into the grinder.

To be fair (slightly) Ashes and Dust can account for 5 activations. 2 as the core/dust 1 as A&D and 2 more as core/dust. It is one model that is defiinately worth it's points.