aColette and Deliver a Message

[EntrepeNinja]

I've been searching for anyone else running up against this, and haven't found much. I know she hasn't seen much practical use yet, but I'm curious about popular opinion:

aColette vs. anybody with Deliver a message Strategy.

Assuming you can get to Avatar without being delivered to, what would happen if a model tried to deliver a message to a decoy? Technicaly they all share the same card, and therefore the same model, but as she is the avatar of deception, wouldn't it make sense that the message not be delivered unless it was delivered to the right one? I think if the ruling goes she can monty her way to some real confusion around the board, that this would be a really good use of the Colette avatar, but if the ruling goes to any one of them being a deliver target, it triples your chance, and totally trump the effectiveness of shell-game.

What do you guys think?

[mythicFOX]

Welcome to the boards. Great to see new faces.

I honestly have no idea, really good question, looking forward to the answer.

For future reference this should probably be posted in the rules forum.

EDIT: Edited to remove reflex sarcasm. :/

[merlinman]

I think the message can be delivered to any non revealed decoy. As the decoys are insignificant i believe ( no card in front of me ) and when you have "all three" on the field and none are revealed they can all run around and interact with things. If they can do this then i would think a message can be delivered

[Grifonetto]

Getting into the fine print, this is how I would interpret it (bearing in mind that I'm not a rules authority):

First, the Decoys aren't your leader. Second, Deliver a Message says that while within 2" of your leader a model may take a (2) Interact action to deliver the message. So when your opponent gets a model within 2" of a Decoy and tries to take that action, you have to inform him that he's not within 2" of your leader, so the action cannot be taken, which de facto reveals your Decoy and leaves the enemy model sitting next to it with 2 AP to work with.

EDIT: As a corollary, if you've got the real Avatar and a Decoy close together, so that your opponent can get his model within 2" of both of them, he doesn't have to actually know which one is real to deliver the message.

[edonil]

My only problem with that interpretation is that that's not what Decoy says about revealing. Decoy outlines specific circumstances under which you reveal who the Decoy is, but otherwise, they are Colette until revealed, as per the rule. Personally, without an FAQ or ruling from Ratty or one of the other Rules Marshals, that's how I see it working per the rules.

[Fetid Strumpet]

Grifonetto, I can see how you might come to that interpretation, however, according to the rules as written, I believe that interpretation to be incorrect. Until a decoy is revealed they all share the same card as aColette, and delivering a message is not a condition that would force a reveal of whether the model in question is a decoy or not, as the rules for revealing a decoy state that a decoy is only revealed when it suffers dmg or wds, it is killed or sacrificed, or at the end closing phase. If your interpretation were correct the Decoy's also couldn't use any trait reserved for the master, such as use SS, nor could they count as significant, as the decoy's themselves are not.

Until a decoy is revealed it is for all intents and purposes officially Colette, Avatar of Deception, even the paragraph after the conditions under which a decoy is revealed says:

Spells cast by one Colette, Avatar of Deception model cannot be cast by the remaining, Colette, Avatar of Deception models during their simultaneous activation.

Which to me says that unless a decoy is revealed every single one of the Decoys is a valid target for delivering the message.


Now whether the designers intended this to be the consequence is another matter, and I could easily see them adding an errata to allow a Decoy to be revealed when involved in an action that can only be directed at a master. However, until they clarify it I don't see any argument backed up by the rules that could justify not being able to deliver the message to an unrevealed Decoy.

[merlinman]

My only problem with that interpretation is that that's not what Decoy says about revealing. Decoy outlines specific circumstances under which you reveal who the Decoy is, but otherwise, they are Colette until revealed, as per the rule. Personally, without an FAQ or ruling from Ratty or one of the other Rules Marshals, that's how I see it working per the rules.

^^ think this guy has it right, similar to what i said :]

[Grifonetto]

I see your points, edonil, merlinman and FetidStrumpet. One thing I'd like to clarify, though, is that when I said "de facto revealed", I meant that your opponent effectively knows that it's a Decoy despite it not being officially "revealed". My position is still that the Decoy wouldn't have an ability that says it may "act as if it were Colette" if it actually was Colette, so it isn't. I don't think it's a huge issue though, and (for example) in a tournament I would just ask the TO to make a call and abide by whatever they decided. It would be nice to see an official ruling, though.

[pixelante]

It should be pointed out that when you attack a decoy it reveals that decoy. So I see no problem trying to interact with a decoy. You would still be spending the action points for the interact though because to do otherwise would be an abuse of the rules to stop aColettes shell game.

Model spends AP to "deliver message" to aColette.
aColette is revealed to be a decoy.
Model spends remaining AP and ends turn.

[Barnaberible]

the question is are all aColettes 'your master' until they are revealed as a decoy, or is your master only the real Colette. I dont have the card with me but will have a check when I can to see what I make of it.