Zoraida vs Pandora

[*Jack*]

I dont understand why people think duty negates pacify/incite? o.O

[Ozz]

I dont understand why people think duty negates pacify/incite? o.O

(1) Tread the Line
(CC13: Rst:- / Rg 8 Aura) Friendly models, including this model, gain "Duty: This model's Controller can not be changed."
That is what duty means. No more of the spell.
This next part of the spell is what messes with Pandora.
Friendly models are immune to effects which restrict when they can activate during the turn. These effects on models within the aura when this spell is successfully cast immediately end.

In the second part i have highlighted the full stop as it is important and the part that had me confused.

But basically Incite and pacify affect/control when you can activate a model. So the first sentence of the second block of Tread the Line (not Duty) that i typed stops this from happening. The second line of the second part removes any effects such as incite or pacify that have already been cast on a model if they are within the aura when the spell gets cast.

Hope that explains my reasoning well enough for you?

[Heartsbane]

Edited my last post to reflect that I was wrong about Tread the Line. So on the matter of beating Pandora, Sue is the best model for it, with +2wp aura and protection from pacify/incite auras.

[TedPro]

General tips against Pandora:

Kill her Sorrows and Doppelganger. They are a lot more fragile than she is, and killing them knocks out a lot of Pandora's offensive potential.
Use blasts or area affects to drop her.

Zoraida-specific tips:
Zoraida loves working with Collodi and it's a winning combination against anyone. Collodi's even faster than Pandora.
Have Zoraida attack Pandora directly. Zoraida's got the best Wp in the game. If she manifests, she's not quite as high in WP, but she'll still win pretty often, and be able to kill Pandora with spells.
Hire Misaki as a Mercenary. Misaki is great at killing Pandora with her blast melee attack.
Zoraida loves to Conduit/Obey, which can help against Pandora.

[Keltorian]

So can't Pandora just repeatedly target the models immune to pacify/incite (because they will not be affected) and as long as they keep losing the Wp duel they will keep taking damage?

[nix]

So can't Pandora just repeatedly target the models immune to pacify/incite (because they will not be affected) and as long as they keep losing the Wp duel they will keep taking damage?

If you are immune you never actually take the WP duel. Further, you ignore the actual duel which would cause the initiator of the duel to fail.

Technically Pandora could target one of them but the ability would then "fizzle" and Pandora would not be able to continue with the Incite/Pacify chain.

[Keltorian]

I'm new to this game and that doesn't entirely make sense to me. Aren't the models immune to the effect imposed by Pacify/Incite, rather than being immune to Pacify/Incite.

From what Ozz posted above regarding Tread the Line "Friendly models are immune to effects which restrict when they can activate during the turn. These effects on models within the aura when this spell is successfully cast immediately end."

So is there a rule that states that models immune to the effect of a spell (rather than the spell itself) do not have to take Wp duels against those spells? I am skimming through the rules pdf trying to find something, but I'm a noobie so I am probably overlooking something. In my head this happens:

1. Pandora casts Pacify/Insight on a target model that is immune to effects which restrict when they can activate during the turn.

2. There is an opposed Wp->Wp duel.

3. Assuming Pandora wins and is within 12 inches, the target takes 1 Wd. from Emotional Trauma.

4. The game checks to see if it is legal to apply the spells effect, which it is not.

5. The target is not affected by Pacify/Insight, making it a legal target for an additonal Pacify/Insight attempt.

6. Repeat till target is removed from game or Pandora loses the Wp duel.

Can someone point out where in that sequence of events I am incorrect. I think I may be missing something fundamentally important.

[marful]

Here is what (0) Pacify says:

Target enemy model unaffected by Incite or Pacify within 12" performs a WP->WP Duel with this model. If the target model loses, it must activate after any other model in it's Crew which has not been affected by Pacify. IF this model wins the WP Duel, it may choose to take the Pacify Action again this activation.

So, the (0) Pacify action does three things. 2 of the 3 things the action does are contingent on the first being successful. Thus the first is independent of the 2 subsequent contingent parts of (0) Pacify.

First Part: Forces the target model within 12" to make a WP->WP duel. If Pandora wins this duel then anything that triggers off of winning a duel triggers (Emotional Trauma / Fading Memories). These other talent's of Pandora's that trigger off of winning a WP->WP duel are independent of the "effect" that the (0) Pacify action places on the model.

Second Part: It applies the following effect on the model "The target model...must activate after any other model in it's Crew which has not been affected by Pacify."

Third Part: If the model performing (0) Pacify wins the duel, it may use this action again.



The WP->WP duel happens before any effects are applied, and the effects being applied are contingent upon the WP->WP duel being won. Thus while "Walk the Line" would prevent the effect from being applied as they are immune, it won't stop the duel from taking place, because the duel is independent of the effect.

[Keltorian]

Thats basically how I thought it worked marful, thanks. This should mean that the models can be repeatedly targetted with pacify and killed.

[Korrosion]

Here is what (0) Pacify says:



So, the (0) Pacify action does three things. 2 of the 3 things the action does are contingent on the first being successful. Thus the first is independent of the 2 subsequent contingent parts of (0) Pacify.

First Part: Forces the target model within 12" to make a WP->WP duel. If Pandora wins this duel then anything that triggers off of winning a duel triggers (Emotional Trauma / Fading Memories). These other talent's of Pandora's that trigger off of winning a WP->WP duel are independent of the "effect" that the (0) Pacify action places on the model.

Second Part: It applies the following effect on the model "The target model...must activate after any other model in it's Crew which has not been affected by Pacify."

Third Part: If the model performing (0) Pacify wins the duel, it may use this action again.



The WP->WP duel happens before any effects are applied, and the effects being applied are contingent upon the WP->WP duel being won. Thus while "Walk the Line" would prevent the effect from being applied as they are immune, it won't stop the duel from taking place, because the duel is independent of the effect.

This is my understanding as well. Has there been any input from a RM on this?