Would Hamelin loose me friends?

[cain]

Nix is a solid pain to remove

First game with Hamelin.
Ryle: Look, a big target which does not come back! Blamblamblam. Doggie gone.
There are a lot of shooters which do 3+ dam per hit, so Nix is dead in 3 hits. If you cant activate him between for healing or hiding, hes toast.

Hamlin is a card generating monster

How many control cards does the average opponent (without extra card drawing abilities) have in the hand? 6 isnt it?
So how often does the average opponent plays a control card if you consider some of the cards are not worth cheating?

So, where is the monster card generating?

[magicpockets]

First game with Hamelin.
Ryle: Look, a big target which does not come back! Blamblamblam. Doggie gone.
There are a lot of shooters which do 3+ dam per hit, so Nix is dead in 3 hits. If you cant activate him between for healing or hiding, hes toast.

Likely Ryle will kill him, like he kills everything else in the game. But Nix is without a doubt one of the hardest minions in the game to put down.

How many control cards does the average opponent (without extra card drawing abilities) have in the hand? 6 isnt it?
So how often does the average opponent plays a control card if you consider some of the cards are not worth cheating?

So, where is the monster card generating?

Hamelin's totem can net him one per turn and Hamelin himself can net two cards per AP. I often have 10/12+ cards in my hand during a turn.

[cain]

Hamelin himself can net two cards per AP

And per model. Where do you get the models to sacrifice from? If you call a stolen and sacrifice him and the rat, you lost your masters full activation and 5 ss (or 3 if you call the rat free extra) of models to get 4 cards.

[magicpockets]

Sometimes spending Hamelins AP on cards is the best thing to do. And sacking a summoned Stolen doesn't cost you 3SS, it costs you 1AP. There is a big difference and when you're playing Hamelin its an important one - you can't think of summoned models in terms of SS cost, sacrificing them is part of his natural playstyle (plus you only ever need one Stolen anyway - if any at all)

[graeme27uk]

Sometimes spending Hamelins AP on cards is the best thing to do. And sacking a summoned Stolen doesn't cost you 3SS, it costs you 1AP. There is a big difference and when you're playing Hamelin its an important one - you can't think of summoned models in terms of SS cost, sacrificing them is part of his natural playstyle (plus you only ever need one Stolen anyway - if any at all)

Isn't it wise to always keep at least one Stolen out so that Hamelin can respawn?

So what other tips do you have for playing Hamelin himself?

What other minions would work with him (without being cheesy like the Tot list)?

[cain]

And sacking a summoned Stolen doesn't cost you 3SS, it costs you 1AP.

Hm, 1 Ap would be ok, but i have to spend 2, one for summoning and one for abandoned soul to get the cards. Ok, and a free rat.
But this seems be a a personal playstyle thing, i hate sacrificing even a rat (stolen are ok) for Hamelins spells. My opponents know what to do, and my crew becomes smaller every turn even if i dont reduce it by myself.

What other minions would work with him (without being cheesy like the Tot list)?

Whenever i took something not cheap and recyclable (Candy for example), my opponent went very happy to have a first target.
I prefer canines and night terrors, both are able to give - to Wp duels, are fast, cheap and have less problems with terrifying.

[magicpockets]

Hm, 1 Ap would be ok, but i have to spend 2, one for summoning and one for abandoned soul to get the cards. Ok, and a free rat.
But this seems be a a personal playstyle thing, i hate sacrificing even a rat (stolen are ok) for Hamelins spells. My opponents know what to do, and my crew becomes smaller every turn even if i dont reduce it by myself.

I'm guessing a hint of being pedantic here - you know I was simply contrasting the thinking that a Stolen costs 3SS with the thinking that a Stolen costs 1AP. And, if you're not sacrificing your stuff you're not playing Hamelin properly (and that isn't a playstyle thing, that's how most of his abilities and spels work)

[graeme27uk]

Stolen are "made" for sacrificing. Though still not sure how you can afford multiple sacrifices per turn. Sure you can get one Stolen back but one Stolen does not compensate, so you will end up with a crew that is getting smaller.

Sacrificing rats doesn't spawn new rats, so your swarm would get smaller each turn if you used them as the sacrifice cost. The only way around this would be to get rats spawning from the enemy once you get there.

I also guess Hamelin wants to build up his control hand as large as he can in the first turn as after that his card generation gets a bit less reliable.

So, to MP, where do you get your sacrifice targets from?

[cain]

I also guess Hamelin wants to build up his control hand as large as he can in the first turn as after that his card generation gets a bit less reliable.

The problem is, he still needs to discards cards over 6 at the end of the turn. So a big hand is a good 6 hand in the next turn, but only 6. In my games i get problems around turn 4, when my hand runs out and my opponents cheat carefully.

(and that isn't a playstyle thing, that's how most of his abilities and spels work)

If i can obey a model by the pipes, i prefer this instead of casting Obedience, which costs my a model and can be resisted. Maybe iam to mean.
Technically i could play with the ratloop to outactivate, because its how they work (yet). But i dont because i try to play fair, yes even with Hamelin.

[graeme27uk]

I see the infinite-rat-loop out-activating shinanigans as a cheap trick that isn't what the designers intended. I have not stooped to do it even though it would be pretty easy to pull off.

Unless that is the way that Hamelin IS intended to play. If so, then wouldn't giving him a bonus ot the initiative in some way be less "cheesy"?