Would Hamelin loose me friends?

[graeme27uk]

It is interesting I feel that players seem to dislike the Insignificant rather than dead. Why is that I ponder......

I can think of lots of uses for Insignificant models, but not quite so many for a dead model.

Comes back to why is Hamelin reviled whereas there are more potent and annoying master combo's potentially out there?

I'd agree that there must be a better mechanic for handling lots of models, which is going to happen with rats. But then the game is not really designed for lots of models. I wonder if the same happens with Nicodem and MZ's...

[Trevelyan]

It is interesting I feel that players seem to dislike the Insignificant rather than dead. Why is that I ponder......

I can think of lots of uses for Insignificant models, but not quite so many for a dead model.

I agree. In the very worst case scenario, an insignificant model is no worse then a dead model, and still gives you an extra activation and something that can base block the other crew. In most cases there are still a host of viable targets.

Yet it does seem to be a very genuine reaction from some people. The same guy who didn't like having two of his crew turned insignificant has happily continued playing when I've eliminated models with equal ease in other games.

[graeme27uk]

So since Hamelin seems to be in for the nerf bashing, should Leve be in for some nerfing as well as he can do similar things to Hamelin, come back from the dead, etc...

If not, what is the different between Levie and Hamelin that means Levie is considered "ok".

[nilus]

If not, what is the different between Levie and Hamelin that means Levie is considered "ok".

Hamelins problems are less about coming back from the dead and more about the rat swams coming back over and over

[graeme27uk]

So if the unending rat issue was solved (as in MagicPockets post) then Hamelin would be no worse or reviled than Leve?

[Sniddy]

As long as you don't abuse Hammy you're fine

In friendly play that is

In competitive play go bananas

After playing against your list - I can see why Hammy is feared....and your concerns

Nix is a solid pain to remove, the amount of firepower needed to take that thing down and what he does means you need to remove him

The rats don't DIE - and there's more of them, always more of them.....yes i know you can kill hammy kill the catcher(s) etc then kill rats, but that amount of fire power a turn would be impressive

One of the reasons I feel Levi is less reviled his death/rebirth cycle is actually easier to shut down....

Hamlin can go toe to toe with something then die and pop back up the other side of the board....Levi's need to stay within 10" of him....and they're fragile

Any ranged threats and I'd have needed to keep at least one VERY safe.....

He also needs to die every turn really to pull in cards. Hamlin is a card generating monster

Levi can focus on one thing and given the cards/stones can generally kill it - a 12 wound mod can be halfed, halfed again and then steampunked. Or he can generate more steampunks...He's a glass cannon that refreshes - so one of the best ways to deal with him is wound him....a half wounded levi is less effective....so putting 2/3 wounds on him can spell the difference between a bomb round and a bum round. Hamlin cares not for being wounded - or hard to die, or the fact you only hit by 1 and should be on negative....or cover....he's also a darn sight faster then levi - but levi can spend wounds to move, but that limits his actions

But yeh it's the never dieing rats - (unless you turn them into steampunks)....I can see cerberus being handy agaisnt them and hoarcat prides for my Marcus crew....that I feel is one of the biggest things I'll not enjoy against Hammy - I've got no problem with stuff being recyced - corpse counters becoming flesh golems - scrap turning into spiders as this all costs one of the most valuable resources, AP, you don't get something for nothing....cept hammy and his rats

I can see how he'd be so easy to break and abuse and I have a rule of never touching something I can break....I have no willpower I will create broken evilness....as it's too tempting so I think I'll shy away from Hamlin - but thats my 2 cents woth

YOU can run it and not loose friends

I'D loose friends, teeth and probably consciousness.

[TedPro]

I have only played against Hamelin a little, so pardon the theoryfaux, but I think there are three basic issues that need to be resolved with Hamelin:

1. He comes back very easily if you kill him. (With penalties, but still more easily than Leveticus or Viktorias, and the other masters don't come back at all.)

2. Infinite rats with tons of de facto reactivation. They take a lot of time, and they usually just benefit from being killed. And if you try some sort of clever debuff, a Rat Catcher will just kill them all and proceed with another set of activations.

3. Hamelin can make everyone Insignificant, at which point they can neither hurt him, nor accomplish objectives. By end-game, enemy models are irrelevant and therefore bored.

For all three of these, the problem is: Hamelin benefits tremendously from making the game less fun for the other player, and he's really good at it. The other player is left with nothing to do.

[graeme27uk]

I don't have the v3 Leveticus card, so I may be wrong.

But, is there any way that Leveticus can turn Rats into SPA's if there is a Rat Catcher or Hamelin within 6" for Voracious Rats (VR)?

1) Death's Touch - this would kill the rat so spawning another from VR

2) Desolation - would kill and respawn rats

3) Necrotic Unmaking - Kills rats, so spawning another rat and no SPA as nothing else can be summoned from the kill

4) Unnatural Wasting - would not kill a rat anyway

5) Entropic Transformation - would sacrifice a rat, so another would not spawn, but would not summon a SPA as the rat is not a Construct. At most it would summon a Hollow Waif up to the max allowed.


So as such there is no way of creating SPA's from rats with VR in effect. Or am I missing something?

[Sniddy]

No you're right - Shoudl have read the card harder and thoruhg about the rules interaction....guess I could played silly buggers with hollow waifs doing it - but the cost in cards/stones would have been excessive

[graeme27uk]

I think there were a few things in that game that were forgotten or whatever. Leve and Hamelin have rules on rules on rules...... brain-ache.

Still, its a learning process and next time I have some other things I would like to try with Hamelin. Still like his fluff regardless..... and his avatar (model) is great!

Not as many blight counters as I would have thought though.....

Wonder if I should play him next time if anyone is willing?