Would Hamelin loose me friends?

[Sandwich]

I was reading some other threads regarding Hamelin.

Some compared him to Leveticus, saying that Levie was just better at the same stuff as Hamelin. Also, that Levie's increased crew choice makes him more unpredictable.

If this is true, then why is Hamelin so vilified and Levie not...

Also, how would Hamelin deal with Terrifying or things with Anathema as that would seem to wreck his day... insignificant or not.

Finally, does Hamelin count as Insignificant or does his Nihilism affect him as well?


Regarding the above post, any idea when Hamelin is going to get revised?

I also have this feeling that if I invested in a Hamelin crew that it would not get used that often and so I might be better investing my monies else where.... which is rather sad as I liked Hamelin's fluff and "I am Plague" feel.

To give your finger the precise direction in which it should point, I am the sole reason and fire-starter of almost all Hamelin negativity.

The reason being is;

1.) There are concise methods available that allow you to completely shutdown a very wide group of playstyles,
2.) There are also concise methods available that make it seem like everything your opponent does has absolutely no impact in the game,
3.) There are equally concise methods available that allow you cheese about your opponents in a way very much unkind.
4.) Ratswarms can take a REALLY long time to move about.

- - - - -

When the second book first dropped, one of the first things I did was run a LOT of Hamelin games where I quickly found out the best and most powerful strategies and used him to just ream the competition into the fetal position.

It didn't lose me any friends but it cost me a game group and I wish it didn't. :(

That's why I said you really should make sure everyone knows everything you're capable of before you run him, because there are some things he's capable of that are just pure anti-fun.

[JayBarlekamp]

A lot of the trouble can be averted if you have any amount of self-control. You don't have to start with 2 blocks of rats with ratcatchers in them. You don't have to continually kill and respawn rats to get a ton of activations.

Hamelin actually has quite a few models he can add from other factions. Try Candy and Kade. Throw in some canine remains or guild hounds. Any of the Effigies will work for him too. Hell, if you really want to be a nice guy, you can take 2 crooligans.

I rarely start with more than 1 or 2 rats. And often I don't have any at all. I have yet to lose as Hamelin in my area. However, I also have yet to have anyone rage-quit or refuse to play Hamelin either.

The main point is, just because Hamelin can be played like an asshole, doesn't mean he needs to be played that way.

[graeme27uk]

I played against Pandora the other day. I guess Hamelin is similar in that, whilst interesting, it does feel a bit one-sided at times.

So if I just got the Hamelin box set, is that going to be "unfun"? I was thinking of adding some Night-terrors for speed and objective grabbing.

I think I prefer aHamelin to normal Hamelin.. he seems more plague-themed and less hated.

[NinjaBreadMen]

First off, having just read through this thread I'd like to say thanks to everyone who's posted as it's been really useful. I play Outcasts and currently have Levi and Ophelia, and have been planning to get all the masters except the Hamster. Having read this though, I now feel I may add the Hamster to my crews after I get all the Outcasts. (ideally that way if there is an errata I can learn the rules post-change, instead of having to get used to his style twice)

A couple of questions though:
My two common opponents play Ressers and Archanists, how do those factions deal best with the Hamster? I'd be playing to have fun, so they won't need to worry about me exploiting anything or throwing unfathomable numbers of activations at them, but what's tricks can I suggest, or which of their masters will stand the best chance.
Also, it's my impression that once a player knows how to stop the Hamster the game kind of flips sides, and suddenly I'll be the one with a face, banging my fists on the table and rolling on the floor crying. Is that the case? Or can the Hamster protect himself against standard tactics to shut him down: I'm concerned that if I get him and we talk through everything he brings to the table, we can establish how best to defeat him, but I'll just be shooting myself in the foot.

Thanks again folks!

[magicpockets]

To give your finger the precise direction in which it should point, I am the sole reason and fire-starter of almost all Hamelin negativity.

I quickly found out the best and most powerful strategies and used him to just ream the competition into the fetal position.

[Oshova]

+1

[graeme27uk]

To give your finger the precise direction in which it should point, I am the sole reason and fire-starter of almost all Hamelin negativity.

The reason being is;

1.) There are concise methods available that allow you to completely shutdown a very wide group of playstyles,
2.) There are also concise methods available that make it seem like everything your opponent does has absolutely no impact in the game,
3.) There are equally concise methods available that allow you cheese about your opponents in a way very much unkind.
4.) Ratswarms can take a REALLY long time to move about.

- - - - -

When the second book first dropped, one of the first things I did was run a LOT of Hamelin games where I quickly found out the best and most powerful strategies and used him to just ream the competition into the fetal position.

It didn't lose me any friends but it cost me a game group and I wish it didn't. :(

That's why I said you really should make sure everyone knows everything you're capable of before you run him, because there are some things he's capable of that are just pure anti-fun.

Sure there are negatives about every master that could be said.... just I guess not the same extent as Hamelin. Being Insignificant doesn't take you "out of the game" as such though does it. It just means you don't count for schemes, etc.

Which whilst a pain at least you still have that model to do stuff with.... not as bad as a dead model.

As I said, Terrifying and such would seem to be able to screw around with Hamelin crews as nothing about them makes them special against such effects.

What would a Hamelin vs aSeamus be like...

[magicpockets]

A couple of questions though:
My two common opponents play Ressers and Archanists, how do those factions deal best with the Hamster? I'd be playing to have fun, so they won't need to worry about me exploiting anything or throwing unfathomable numbers of activations at them, but what's tricks can I suggest, or which of their masters will stand the best chance.
Also, it's my impression that once a player knows how to stop the Hamster the game kind of flips sides, and suddenly I'll be the one with a face, banging my fists on the table and rolling on the floor crying. Is that the case? Or can the Hamster protect himself against standard tactics to shut him down: I'm concerned that if I get him and we talk through everything he brings to the table, we can establish how best to defeat him, but I'll just be shooting myself in the foot.

I wouldn't worry about this, I've played Hamelin competitively a long time (and won UK Masters with him without losing a game in the event) and whilst people can learn to play against him, he would never become disadvantaged by that. He's one of the most competitive Masters in the game imo.

Sure there are negatives about every master that could be said.... just I guess not the same extent as Hamelin. Being Insignificant doesn't take you "out of the game" as such though does it. It just means you don't count for schemes, etc.

Which whilst a pain at least you still have that model to do stuff with.... not as bad as a dead model.

Exactly

As I said, Terrifying and such would seem to be able to screw around with Hamelin crews as nothing about them makes them special against such effects.

What would a Hamelin vs aSeamus be like...

Terrifying isn't too much of an issue - soulless models ignore it (but obviously not anathema) and rat catchers can do Mouldy Cheese and then Kill all Rats to replace the fleeing rats with new ones. It's an issue, but not a huge one.

[graeme27uk]

Picked up a Hamelin crew from ebay.

Hamelin
Nix
Obedient Wretch
6 Stolen
15 Rats
2 Rat Catchers

All with Wyrd Sewer base inserts.

Cost me £75 (inc p&p) which I think was a pretty good deal. Not painted or anything and also came with all the cards.

So just need to figure out what to do with him now. And get his avatar when it's released.....

So what should I add to this. I am thinking Night Terrors would be a good choice. I have Terror Tots, though I don't think they fit his theme at all... apart from being Neverborn children...

Brutal Effigy would add some range.
Canine Remains would be themetic - not sure how effective though.
Crooligans - themetic children - again not sure how effective they would be.

Any advice?

[Trevelyan]

Since we're on the subject, I played my first Hamelin game on Friday and it did result in a few moments of definite unfun (although the other player has admitted that it was in some part due to us not finishing until he small hours of Saturday morning).

I had a pretty generic Hamelin crew (Hammy, Nix, the Wretch, a few stolen and rats) with 5ss left over. The other guy had a guild crew designed for Lucius but with Sonnia in charge (some Guild Guards with the Captain, an Austringer and a Hound, plus the Sergeant as a totem). I had Claim Jump as strategy and the guild had Destroy the Evidence.

Hamelin took up position on a raised central platform from where he could happily target much of the table and the bulk of my force swept slowly but inexorably towards the claim token, cutting off one rout to the evidence markets as they did so. The Guild focused fire on Nix (Kill Protege as a secret scheme) and my Ratcatcher as they progressed, but by the time the 'Catcher was in serious danger (trapped in melee with Sonnia) I had enough rats available that they were happy to leave him to his fate ans summon a new 'Catcher safe from the line of fire and in melee range of the Austringer.

The guild formed a gun line and took a few shots at Hammy until he stpeed back out of range, then largely bimbled about a bit. One guard made a dash for an evidence market but was rendered insignificant by Hammy and was sufficiently far from the action by that point (end of Round 4) that he played no further practical part. The combined efforts of Sonnia, the Austringer and the Hound killed Nix before the Hound and then the Austringer were killed in turn. Sonnia ended up apart from the action and made a dash for my deployment zone too late to secure the evidence market but still managed to deny my 2vp for a declared Hold Out scheme.

Final score was 6-1 to me, although had the game run to another round it could easily have gone to 4-4.

The biggest disappointment for the guild player was the insignificance of his Guard sent for the outlying market. I had a 13 in my hand that I had been holding for just such an occasion, and the Guard was unable to resist the spell. The player noted that he would have much rather had a dead Guardsman than one left alive but useless, and felt that Hamelin's ability to render targets insignificant without them having the means to prevent it (given the casting total and the Guard's low WP) was too strong.

It occurred to me that for the same action cost (2aps, one to summon a Stolen and one to sacrifice it and cast the spell) and with the same cards, my other main master, Leveticus, could have killed the Guard outright and replaced him with a SPA, rather than the rat that Hamelin received from sacrificing the Stolen. All things considered, Hamelin did no more than Levi, and even left the Guard on the table, albeit he was functionally useless in this scenario. The same player has lost with his guild crew to Levi in the past without complaint, so clearly there is something in the distinction between dead and insignificant.

I also turned the Guard Captain insignificant reasonably early on, and that didn't present a problem as he was able to continue to contribute by aiding other models. In that situation, insignificant was definitely better than dead.

We did agree that the trigger on the rat's teeth, to impose -2wp to the end of the encounter, was pretty strong, and could quite reasonably be until the end of the turn.

We also agreed that the whole rat swarm mechanic - moving multiple piddly little models twice, placing new rats, and so on, was a royal PITA. The intent is clear and thematic, but the practice is less than ideal.

Personally, I also found it hard to decide what to do with Nix. He seems to have a lot of potentially useful abilities, but they never really came off.

The upshot is that, while I plan to use Hammy at some point in future, I am somewhat inclined to wait and see what the promised errata brings. At least unless I have a chance to play against Kirai first.