an alternate 20 point core for Lilith (Sorrows)

[TedPro]

I played a list based off this last week in a 60ss Brawl.

Neverborn Crew - 60 - Brawl

Lilith, Mother of Monsters -- 10 Pool
Malifaux Cherub [2ss]

Zoraida, the Hag
+ Zoraida, Avatar of Fate [2ss]

Arcane Effigy [4ss]
Brutal Effigy [4ss]
Coppelius [9ss]
Doppelganger [8ss]
Lelu [7ss]
Lilitu [7ss]
Sorrow [3ss]
Sorrow [3ss]
Stitched Together [5ss]
Stitched Together [5ss]


The list worked well, kind off. A few Earthquake spells failed, but generally I moved the whole crew up about 8-10" per turn reliably (except for Zoraida and the Arcane Effigy, who perched on a high elevation did some long-distance Obey spells until Manifesting)

The Transposition-Sorrow trick didn't work once, even with Soulstones spent. I cast it about five times, and it was resisted every time. I think I should have gone after medium opponents rather than masters with Transposition, but my Strategy was Contain Power, so it wouldn't have helped me that much.

All the Resist Flips for the Lilith Bus are frustrating! Even though you can automatically choose to fail your resist flip, it was still annoying to burn through 10 cards every time I cast a spell.

Fun crew to play once, but I don't think I'll do it much again.

[Joel]

I also tried the idea.

Lilith
Primordial magic
2 sorrows
Brutal effigy
Hodgepodge effigy
Collodi, 4 puppets

I had treasure hunt, kidnap and bodyguard (collodi)

I was up against ressers:

Nicodem
Grave spirit
3 canine remains
Dead rider
Punk zombie
2 rotten belles

He had line in the sand, bodyguard (Nicodem) and (can't remember - he didn't get it)

The earthquake movements were ok, but terrain was hampering. I got the transposition trick to work once, but it dragged a dog from a dynamite marker before it could trigger it for Lilith to slaughter. Lilith then got paralysed a lot by Nicodem :(

Still, won the game 7-2 and will use sorrows with Lilith again

[Q'iq'el]

Transposition is tricky. If you want to use it in competitive play, IMHO, you need to reverse how you approach it. Rather than pull the opponent, push own hitty models. That way it won't get resisted and may be less resource-intensive too.

Lelu is particularly good at this - you can run up to the opponent with Terror Tot or something (preferably after they've already spent their activation and can't hit it), Transposition Lelu in (in place of the Tot) and after Lelu does its thing, before the opponent can hit him, you can Lure him back with Lilitu. Mature Nephilims do OK too, especially if you put them in defensive stance, but they'll soak damage rather than run away from it, which limits the list of "safe" targets somewhat.

The only "random" in this is Lelu's damage output and he is quite dependable in this department.


This of course works against the idea of Sorrow list, which requires you cast Transposition on the opponent.

[bashamer]

yeah, this is more of a hit and run approach.

I tend to explode some 7-8 ss model turn 2 w/ transposition; Then while they recover I got time to get objectives.

Really this list likes to play from ~12" away and snipe some big pieces, then use my superior resources to go after masters. This list is not good at killing masters as it does not chase down very well; and there are better options when you have masters facing masters.

Any model with use SS is really hard to summon w/ transportation as Lilith is really a lousy caster (but her spells are costed for a lousy caster making them awesome for copying)

My main love for earthquake is still Teddy.

But yeah, this crew is good at countering things like objective grabbers; snipers; combos; and helping slower models.

if I could bring any of the 4 point guild models they would be perfect, and a mole man would be amazing, but allas. so the Buss really is lacking passengers.

[alegionaire]

I'm anxious to hear how much fun, if any, you have w that list. Please share the gencon results.

[bashamer]

yeah still not sure on Gencon; at least that crew is nearly painted and I have a clue how to play it.

It really depends on what people bring; facing von Shill every game is not an unreasonable expectation, and this list does not have an answer for him outside of the arcane Effigy.

I have Collodi & Lillith for Neverborn and well, Collodi has a reputation that makes me not want to put him on the board.

But the list is fun a few times until it feels completely unfair. At 25 points it flat out means that they either bring a bunch of models that are immune to influence or have use soul stone or they risk getting it sniped. Or they bring a low point cost herd and risk having Lillith transposition into their midst (you get 3 shots and each can burn a soul stone)

The Buss aspect is nice, but not nearly as powerful as the sorrow summoning w/ Alluring up; or the effective 8 card hand. It just gives you amazing positional advantage turn 1 if there is no terrain.

So honestly it depends on what I expect the meta to be; use soul stone and immune to influence really makes me look at Molemen or guild 4 point model spam.

And well, I have no clue about the Meta; so the best I can do is show up sober and have fun. Don't really know Malifaux well enough to sport a waterbottel filled with gin n tonic.

Oh and the avatar is a waste of points. It really doesn't work well and it no longer breaks the links (aka it is not a safety switch in case the Brutal dies). So yeah doing hit and run and then pushing your opponent does not work. You can do one, or the other but if you run then your opponent gets to go wherever they please.

this would be my current 25 pts; you can add the totem depending on terrain.

Neverborn Crew - 25 - Scrap

Lilith, Mother of Monsters -- 6 Pool

• Arcane Effigy [4ss]
• Brutal Effigy [4ss]
• Sorrow [3ss]
• Sorrow [3ss]
• Teddy [9ss]

but a good opponent will assassinate the Brutal first, the question is if they have the resources at 25 points after the summon goes off.

[Joel]

I think that I can find room for a sorrow and the brutal effigy in most Lilith lists, and keep this link/transposition trick as an extra little add-on in my crew.

That way I can go forward with more stuff and use the sorrow to snap my own models out of trouble as well as delivering their targets to me.

[Malersatz]

Sticking with the theme, the hodgepodge effigy is a good answer to VonSchill as it can remove his abilities that make him so hard to deal with (two on the trigger!)

I've picked up the core of this crew for our local league play tonight. I'm thinking of running as follows:

Lilith
Brutal Effigy
Arcane Effigy
Lelu
Lilitu
Sorrow
Sorrow
Tuco

I believe Teddy may be better than Lelu/Lilitu (and cheaper) but with the co-activate I have alpha strike capability and backup board manipulation if needed. I'll be running lean on stones, but will see how this goes based on the other guy's list and schemes.

[Guy in Suit]

I would enjoy seeing what this list could do at Gencon. It's not every day where your opponent deploys and you have no idea how they are going to use their list!

[Malersatz]

I ended up playing a smaller game tonight, but the list does quite well.

Lilith (25ss list)
Tuco
Sorrow x2
Brutal Effigy
Arcane Effigy
4 more SS

I played against a Lady J list running the box plus an Austinger. By the end of the game he had only bird-boy left on the table & I flipped Slaughter.

A few things I noticed right off though is that model activation order is key. The Arcane does little for the list beyond the extra AP for the master and arcane resevoir. While that is A LOT, he contributes little beyond the passive. I ended up using the Brutal in melee more than healing with him - at least until I really needed the heal flip and then didn't make the cast.

More than anything... Tuco may be OP in lower point games...

I'll play the list more and post what I find. Thanks BasHamer for making us think outside the box!