The beast awakens! Or at least yawns... Marcus crew!

[Cthulhurising]

So I've been eyeing Marcus for awhile, never really picked up anything for Arcanists before, well after spending time with dolls, nightmares and rats, I figure its time to try out the beasts.
I've read all manner of articles and tactics on him and his crew and I do get that he's a rougher master to get the hang of and Him and his avatar tend to play semi support roles. And he's more focused on objectives, but my question is, what makes a solid, all comers list?

His box set
Rogue necro
Night Terrors
SIlurids?

I'm looking for functional and cheap. As I already have teh Necro and Night Terrors.
But would it be better to get marcus and spend the rest of the box set money on other models?

[ukrocky]

Just don't buy the box set, ever.

One thing you'll have trouble with here is making a solid, all comers, all scenarios list, as marcus really does tailor his list to the strat.

A solid set of starting minions that I would say are must haves, that are MY reccomendation, and it differs alot is;

- Marcus
- Jackalope
- Kaeris
- Student of Conflict
- Blister of Waldegeists
- Blister of Slurids
- Night terrors (But you already have them)
- Gunsmith or two (Gunslinger may suffice if you have him, never used mine though)
- I originally had soulstone miner, unsure atm, but may be still worth it

And that, is my 'essential' core.

[dgraz]

I rarely use anything out of his box. Silurids and Night Terrors are perfect for him. I really like the Waldgeist if there is some forest area terrain. The Jackalope is a virtual auto-include for me....I mean; it's a rabbit....with horns!! Seriously!!

Marcus suffers greatly in the range department...this can be a real problem against certain crews that can limit your melee abilities ....Seamus with Undead Psychosis springs to mind. Consider investing in a Gunsmith or two to help with that when you need it.

[Cthulhurising]

Really? No box set? I was under the impression the contents of the box were useful, just not all in the same list...
The silurids are a must for me, their so freaking cool.
What about gupps/brood mother? is the family any good?

And as far as shooting goes, I do have the convict gunslinger and Mctavish. Forgot to mention them as I don't really go out of faction that much. ><

And Kaeris? Everything I've seen for her she's been pretty... Blech. At least around here. Same with Student Of Conflict, he does one thing the first turn and then sits around playing catch up. Unless there's a Hans in the crew but even then....

So would a decent list (List being used loosely for small collection of models to choose from)
Marcus
Jackalope
Convict Gunslinger (Already have, and I've never used the gunsmith but this guy here is my go-to ranged guy, same as whenever I need killing Killjoy is always taken. This guy is wonderful IMO)
Mctavish (Already have from my gremlin crew)
Silurids
Rogue Necromancy (already have)
Night Terrors (already have from my dreamer crew, only two though)
Razorspine Rattler (I'm not sure what the average view of this guy is, but in the game I played marcus in borrowing a friends crew, this was my VIP. Turn 3 Viks tore marcus apart, this guy here though... ripped through 2,3 models and managed to keep outta Viks range. Almost won me the game anyway.)
Waldgeists
Hoarcat prides? (seems to be worth it to me in a group of two. plus, the wife loves them, which helps me buy models ^^;;)

My final two questions, the Raptors. Cheap flying guys, useful for... turning things into beasts and harrassing, but are they generally worth the cost of actually buying the blister pack? I've seen some people swear by them, and others... would prefer taking the four winged Night Terrors instead.
And what about Joss? I know he's not a beast, but the dude seems to be insane stat wise. He'd probably be my last buy as I'd probably only take him for slaughter and contain power, but.

[Rathnard]

If you're not keen on Kaeris & a Student, then Von Schill makes a suitable alternative as far as mobile shooters go. In any case, it will often pay to have some kind of shooting in your crew. Gunsmiths, the Convict Gunslinger and McTavish would all work too if you really aren't keen on Kaeris or Von Schill.

Personally, my list of go-to models for Marcus is something like;

Marcus
Jackalope
*Some kind of shooting (see above)*
Silurids
Night Terrors
Shikome
Soulstone Miner
Malifaux Raptors
Waldgeists

I'm one of those guys who rate Malifaux Raptors quite highly in a Marcus crew. ;) Don't compare them to Night terrors - they tend to fulfil very different roles and for a very different SS investment (you only need 1 raptor whereas Night Terrors work best in at least pairs). It's sometimes handy to turn friendly and enemy models into beasts, but that's not the only reason I take it.
Raptors are 1. A cheap pair of corpse counters and 2. an expendible distraction. I use mine to tie up enemy models (defensive stance and Df6 helps alot), act as a defend me target for Marcus and generally just get in the way of things. Its 40mm base can really mess up your opponents charge lanes and if it dies keeping a large threat occupied for a turn, I consider it 2SS well spent.

I think alot of people shied away from the Soulstone Miner after the bury errata removed it's brokeness, but the it's still a great minion IMO. You can kill the Jackalope for an easy SS in Turn 1 and it works very well at ambushing or finishing off units. The cards it needs for it's Siphon Essense trigger are rarely used by the rest of Marcus's crew so it's worth saving any high for your Miner. Case in point - in my last game vs Seamus the Soulstone Miner claimed 4SS (1 Jackalope, 1 canine, 2 Belles). That wouldn't be a regular occurance, but it does show you what it's capable of when you play it to it's strengths.

The Razorspine is a decent minion, but tricky to use well and tends to be out-shined by the slightly more expensive Shikome. I actually talk about the Razorspine on one of the earlier episodes of The Aethervox. Basically it's not bad, it just gets ignored in favor of other stuff.

Hoarcat Prides are a minion I've never used and honestly, I don't rate them. They're slow for a Marcus crew and while they're dangerous while undamaged, they look as though they'll quickly lose their effectiveness once they start taking wounds.

I tried the Spawn Mum & Gupps in a game against Lilith once. I wasn't overly impressed with them but it probably wasn't the best game to try them out in anyway. In any case, I think they're basically best used for holding ground in a Silurid crew. Gupps in the Spawning pool are tough to move (they'll basically come back every turn), plus you can go nuts with the Silurid stealing corpses before enemy grave robbers get to use them.

[Cthulhurising]

Alright, Thank you! I'm sure posts like this are getting kinda old, but that pretty much solves my issue!

[ukrocky]

Got a long post to write, but I'm at uni so can't do it till later!

---------- Post added at 11:53 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:21 AM ----------

Really? No box set?

I regret buying it. It's trash.

The silurids are a must for me, their so freaking cool.

And they're simply awesome for objectives games. You don't need to run them in threes though, twos often suffice.

What about gupps/brood mother? is the family any good?

I can't get them to work in theory-faux. They feel like they belong in a slower game...wouldn't reccomend atm.

And Kaeris? Everything I've seen for her she's been pretty... Blech. At least around here. Same with Student Of Conflict, he does one thing the first turn and then sits around playing catch up.

Heh, I've been using Kaeris in almost every Marcus list for 6 months, first turn, move her and the student somewhere behind cover. Every turn after that you're putting out 7 damage from 15" away with no chance of retaliation...

Rogue Necromancy
Razorspine Rattler
Hoarcat prides?

These three are all pants in a Marcus crew.

Joss

Is poo.

If you're not keen on Kaeris & a Student, then Von Schill makes a suitable alternative as far as mobile shooters go. In any case, it will often pay to have some kind of shooting in your crew. Gunsmiths, the Convict Gunslinger and McTavish would all work too if you really aren't keen on Kaeris or Von Schill.

One thing I will say is that I find a second soulstone user (Kaeris for me, Von Schill for Rathnard) is pretty much crucial with Marcus, he can die so easily, it's so good having that second ss-user around to carry on carrying the crew along. I tend to run Kaeris and a gunsmith, so it's not like having 2 shooters is overkill.

Waldegeist

Quick point while I remember it. He's awesome, even on boards without woods, he's so solid for 6ss.

I'm one of those guys who rate Malifaux Raptors quite highly in a Marcus crew. ;) Don't compare them to Night terrors - they tend to fulfil very different roles and for a very different SS investment (you only need 1 raptor whereas Night Terrors work best in at least pairs). It's sometimes handy to turn friendly and enemy models into beasts, but that's not the only reason I take it.
Raptors are 1. A cheap pair of corpse counters and 2. an expendible distraction. I use mine to tie up enemy models (defensive stance and Df6 helps alot), act as a defend me target for Marcus and generally just get in the way of things. Its 40mm base can really mess up your opponents charge lanes and if it dies keeping a large threat occupied for a turn, I consider it 2SS well spent.

I'm still not seeing it Rathnard. You say they fill a different role to a night terror, but the only thing they do that night terrors can't do better is drop corpse counters. An expendible distraction? Night terrors are immense at it. Hard to kill and spirit means they can't be one-hitted (unlike the easy to wound raptors). Add onto it the potential of a potentially game-changing cb trigger, and they are well worth the extra ss.

As for incomparable ss costs, there's been a couple games I've taken just one, but that's because they're the best defend me beast around. Faster than the mole, more durable than the raptor.

It's ridiculous to try and turn enemy models into beasts with them, they're pants in combat, and turning them into a beast does next to nothing for a marcus crew. Same point with turning your own models into beasts, unless your against pandora and want the wp buff up, but then you'd just take a crew of beasts right ;)

As for a defend me target, well, night terrors are king IMO. The fact they can't be one-hitted means they can defend marcus twice if need be. Add onto that the following scenario; An executioner charges Marcus. Marcus Swaps with Night Terror 1. Night Terror 2 activates and drags Night Terror 1 to safety. Whereas a raptor would either be 1-hitted, or be stuck in combat. And thus not able to get in the way of anyone else.

All in all, I see zero worth in raptors whilst night terrors are around.

Soulstone Miner

I'm with Rathnard on this, that I think it still has some good uses, it's just a slighty riskier minion.

[Cthulhurising]

Joss... can't be poo... he's a dual wielding indian... with LIGHTNING!
Seriously though... I always figured he was the go to melee guy for arcanist minions. Maybe its the people I've fighting that are weird. I've seen Joss do far better then the other big melee things the arcanist have (snow storm and steamborg come to mind.)
The birds were really just an idea for joss to be a beast. II'm ok not getting them lol.

Would Kaeris/Vonschill pretty much replace the convict gunslinger? Well, I guess Von Schill would have too. I like my McTavish to much to give up the other merc spot. ^^;;

I assume by "pants" you mean the after thoughts and point fillers?

And what makes the Miner worth it? Everytime I've looked him over its just kinda... eh. He seems like a quicker version of the moleman to me.

Thank you for pointing out the Hoarcat pride being way slower. That woulda messed me up for a game. ^^;; Its the little things I forget to look at. ><

[dgraz]

I like to play in faction mostly so I refuse to jump on the Von Schill band-wagon (seems to be everyone's go-to guy these days) unless I'm playing Von Schill or the Viks. I also mostly like to play a fluffy Marcus list of all beasts so I don't have a lot of experience with Kaeris, Gunsmiths, or the SS Miner in a Marcus crew.

I have run Kaeris a few times (as a master) with the Gunsmiths and SS Miners and they are all solid models. Kaeris is capable of dishing out a crazy amount of damage. UKrocky's trick with her should be killing one key model every turn.

No doubt that the Moleman @ 3ss is great but I don't think you could compare it to the SS Miner. The Miner can have Melee Master and it has a much better CB than the Moleman and the Miner's weapon ignores Armor, can be given blasts, and has a Trigger that gives you a Soulstone. The Miner has much better movement with Scout and when it tunnels it doesn't just gain extra armor, it is immune to everything since it is off the table....and when off the table it can still move 8" a turn. It can also get Soulstones by mining them or with a spell.
Would two Molemen be better? Maybe for certain strategies and they are fluffier, but given the choice I'm going to take the Miner.

The Gunsmith is a good all-around performer. It is difficult to rate them against the Convict because they are very similar:

• CG=extra wound & Bulletproof / GS=HTK and Concealed Weapon
• CG=higher CB and higher min damage / GS=The Hard Way, Custom ammo, and a higher damage trigger
• CG=Suppressing Fire (which is great) / GS=Lead Storm....which is magical damage

All kind've a wash and the other abilities may be better or worse depending on the game. If you're facing Zoraida or Perdita or anyone that attacks WP; 'Duty' and Smoldering Heart' might be more valuable than 'Rapid Fire' and 'Trigger Happy'. Against Hamelin or Gremlins; 'Intimidating' might be more valuable.

[ukrocky]

The miner can essentially get into an opponents key piece and do 4 CB6 attacks doing 2/3/4 damage with no way to be targetted until it comes back.

As for VS/Kaeris replacing Convinct gunslinger, well, not really. I often run Gunsmith and Kaeris, and can see VS and Gunsmith working too, or you can run Kaeris and Gunslinger. Depends on how much shooting you want.