viks vs the neverborn

[retnirp]

So I am getting into Malifaux and picked up a Viks starter box, a blister of ronin, and sue. I played my first few games against the neverborn and realized I needed a couple different tools.

I played games against both Pandora and Lilith and where I felt relatively comfortable fighting Pandora (except for her large amounts of rules). I had a real problem hurting lilith.

Is there a good unit or scheme (or even model/schemes to avoid) to take when going against lilith or is my best option to kill everything else and just run away (and hope they didn't take something like bodyguard)?

[Mournafein]

If you're having a problem with Lilith, I suggest trying to debuff her defense or give her negative flips on as much as you can... Lilith, simply put, is a beatstick master. Engage her on your terms, and watch out for transposition. I play Lilith 90% of the time and Chompy, the other 10%. Lilith's weakness is being slowed or debuffed. I would suggest ranged... But with Viks and Ronins, I don't think you're looking at much... Even if you could, she'll probably just LOS blOck you with trees. Watch out for Earthquake, too. If she really wants to disengage and run, she probably will.

[Alex]

As a Lilith player, here's what I don't like to see:

• Enemy crews not containing Living or Undead models.
• Boards without Woods terrain.
• Attacks against my Wp or Ca, or Blasts/Pulses/Auras.
• Debuffs.
• Losing my totem.
• Enemies with Hunter or that otherwise don't care about LoS.

Lilith has a high Df but is far from indestructible. Ranged attackers with high Cb (Austringers with Drill Sgt and/or Lucius, for example) or just a ton of attacks can bring her down.

Good luck and have fun!

[notmikehill]

So I am getting into Malifaux and picked up a Viks starter box, a blister of ronin, and sue. I played my first few games against the neverborn and realized I needed a couple different tools.

I played games against both Pandora and Lilith and where I felt relatively comfortable fighting Pandora (except for her large amounts of rules). I had a real problem hurting lilith.

Is there a good unit or scheme (or even model/schemes to avoid) to take when going against lilith or is my best option to kill everything else and just run away (and hope they didn't take something like bodyguard)?

Lilith is one of those masters that feel like they're impossible to take down without the proper tools. Consider taking schemes that play to her killing a model (like frame for murder on a ronin and B line right at her) and take bodyguard with the viks seeing as how you have two of them it's relatively difficult for your opponent to thwart that scheme.

A big issue I've had when playing against the Viks is their mobility and weapon range. Most models initially available to Lilith players aren't really shooty ones, so use that to your advantage. Also avoid transposition on your own models as best as you can and try not to let critical figures like Sue or Convict Gunslinger get switched out with a Nephilim!

[von Clausewitz]

Also, Sword Vik may have one less CB than Lilith's DF, but she has paired weapons, meaning that Lilith will almost always have to cheat and/or Soulstone before you do. This is a significant advantage. By buffing sword Vik's damage with gun Vik you can feasibly kill Lilith with two attacks. If you are not already doing so, try bringing a 6+ SS cache.

[BlueStar86]

The Freikorps is probably good to use, they all have stubborn. Taelor has a ridiculous WP, CB, and hits like a truck. Sue can buff your WP, but won't work with Von Schill.

[retnirp]

thanks for the advice everyone, I had started at 6ss for my cache though it seemed like I went through them very quickly (and maybe that was just a luck thing) while the lilith player started at 8 and still had 3 or 4 after killing taelor and the viks.

If I wanted to expand into things with blasts or debuffs what are my options in outcasts?

[Serigala]

The models you have are a great start for a Viks crew. Folk don't tend to get much use out of Bishop or Johan but Taelor is great at adding some resilience and extra heavy melee punch to an already strong melee crew.

Take a look at the Pull my finger wiki (link below) for general advice about using the Viks. They play best, used very aggressively, using their movement tricks to pick off models with Whirlwinds, backed up by Ronin.
Take the maximum cache you can afford - I often take 8ss, and never less than 6ss.
The Student of Conflict can be useful - giving fast to one Vik each turn.

You might also consider the Freikorps boxset. VonSchill is awesome - brilliant for objective capping, and can happily lead a crew in the Viks absence. The best addition to the Viks is the Freikorps Librarian, which can give both Viks 3 healing flips in a single turn. This helps keep the girls alive, and frees up soulstones for the offense.

[BlueStar86]

If there was a way of getting the student of conflict to keep up with the Viks he'd be better. I've found that it's incredibly easy to play the Viks too aggressively, having patience, and waiting for everyone else to catch up is often the better strategy.

[Serigala]

You can compensate for the slow Student playing "tag-team" Viks.
One goes out on a killing spree, the other hangs around with the Student picking up Fast. Thats 6 melee strikes (or Whirlwind attempts) and 1 AP to switch places.
This works very well with the Librarian, which also needs to remain fairly immobile to deliver the maximum healing benefits; both the Student and the Librarian tend to be priority targets, and benefit from hanging back with a Vik bodyguard.