BISHOP - The Best Minion in the Game(?)

[Rathnard]

THIS THREAD - The Best Thread on the Forum(?)

Well when you put it that way...

Great thread and don't want to derail it, but I didn't think you got points for F4M if a Henchman killed your model when they have a Master leading the crew - only the Master counts as a Leader model?

You don't - that was a 3-way game, with Von Schill and Nicodem leading their own crews.

One more short update! I played a game the other night with Bishop in a Zoraida crew vs the Viks in Shared Destroy the Evidence. I won't go into details, but I was able to use Repulsive from Zoraida and Bishops Leap away Trigger (after missed attacks from my Silurid to push Bishop close enough to the centre objective to interact with it on the first turn.

In turn 2, Bishop Charged Taelor, then Slowed (Trigger) and Paralysed (spell) her. Sadly though, he then died in short order to the Viks. It seems that Leap Away is only good if you're opponent is capable of missing the attack. :P

What I Learnt:
I think the key lesson here is that Bishop is not nearly tough enough to stand up against combat-oriented Masters. Using +2 Df for Cage Fighter would have been a better option than Adaopting for vs the Viks, but Use Soulstone is still going to trump Bishop's Defense. In such cases I think Frame For Murder is the best Scheme to pick here - if Bishop's going to die to your opponents Master, it might as well be worth some VPs to you. ;)

Getting Paralyse on a high cost minion like Taelor was cool and along with Slow, it effectively took her out of action for two turns. I don't see it being a regular thing though - you really need a High Rams to get it off and even then, you might only succeed in drawing out one of your opponent's high cards. Slow however - in light of Headcase2's post, I think I need to be considering this Trigger a little more often. ;)

[Kadeton]

The Viks do tend to kill whatever they want in melee. Bishop's no exception, it just hurts more when you lose him due to his enormous cost. Cage Fighter probably wouldn't help either. :P

Do you generally use Adaptive for a Mask? I can see Leap Away being situationally useful, and Toss Aside being very situational, but I guess I would generally go with Rams instead, mostly for Critical Strike (provides the possibility of actual decent damage) with the chance at Riposte on the defence. The way that all his Df triggers require the opponent to miss is annoying.

I think this is probably why a lot of people pass over Bishop - it's tough to see an 'optimal' way to use him, which makes you feel like he's not providing his full value. Paralysing and Slowing a model in a single turn is pretty boss if you can pull it off, though.

I'm looking forward to using him in my next game and giving some of this stuff a try.

[Guy in Suit]

I'd take bishop if he were 8 points. Otherwise, Taelor exists and is cheaper.

I do like the clever movement shenanigans though ;)

[Kadeton]

I'd take bishop if he were 8 points. Otherwise, Taelor exists and is cheaper.

I do like the clever movement shenanigans though ;)

That's always been my problem. Taelor is simply amazing at area denial - come over here and you're going to get smashed, it doesn't really matter who you are. Taelor plus a Librarian is incredibly difficult to shift.

Bishop can do as much damage as Taelor, but he has to work at it (Adaptive for a Ram, and Critical Strike with a Ram card in play will just do it). Bishop can ignore Armour like Taelor, but he has to work at it (casting Cage Fighter or using a Tome). Bishop can be tough to kill (with Df 8 and the possibility of Leap Away), but he has to work at it. Taelor does all those things without having to muck around, she can do them all at once instead of having to choose between them, and she has an enormous melee range. Playing Bishop seems like so much careful planning, whereas with Taelor you can just set her up and watch her go, bang bang bang.

However, this thread isn't about Taelor. :P

I would also happily take Bishop a lot if he were 8 SS. 10 SS is getting into the range where he needs to be seriously dangerous, or incredibly tough, to justify that cost.

[Rathnard]

The Viks do tend to kill whatever they want in melee. Bishop's no exception, it just hurts more when you lose him due to his enormous cost. Cage Fighter probably wouldn't help either. :P

At the very least, the +2Df from Cage Fighter would helped them burn a few more soulstones along the way, since all of their duel totals ended up 1-2 points higher than mine. Otherwise, you're absolutely right - Bishops death was going to be inevitable regardless of what I did. ;)

Do you generally use Adaptive for a Mask? I can see Leap Away being situationally useful, and Toss Aside being very situational, but I guess I would generally go with Rams instead, mostly for Critical Strike (provides the possibility of actual decent damage) with the chance at Riposte on the defence. The way that all his Df triggers require the opponent to miss is annoying.

I have adapted for Rams before, but Masks has still been my favorite. It still gives me the chance for a Riposte, but the auto-Leap Away trigger prevents him being targetted too many times by a single melee model (esp if they're trying to flurry). Toss aside gives him something that few other models can do - the ability to push an enemy model to where you want. You can use it to move models off objectives, out of cover/melee range for your shooters to target, or into hazardous terrain or placed damage markers (eg. Sonnia's Flame Wall). It also lets him set up multiple charges on the same or different models, and gives him the extra mobility for charging twice (potentially 14" total).

I guess this is also a reflection of how I see him - as a positioner rather than an outright damage dealer.

I do agree that he's overcosted though. From my experiences thus far he's definitely a great model in his own right, but just not quite worth the 10-11 SS you pay to have him out.

[Kadeton]

Man, I hadn't even considered the possibility of a charge, Toss Aside, and charge again maneuver - that's actually pretty awesome.

[Headcase2]

How about (0) Adaptive Fighter for - charge - cheat a to Choke (slow) - melee expert - toss - charge -toss: you move the opponent's model 6" from where it wants to be, it most likely can't retaliate properly since it's slow and not in melee (and if you set it up right Bishop's in cover).
This migth seem hard when you first read it, but it's actually very easy to pull off.

[Normski]

Viks vs Viks, couple of weeks back Bishop choked and then slapped my Sue to death! Really good move from my Opponant (Scurry) initiative is a killer lol will be feilding Bishop soon!!