Dead doxy

[Omenbringer]

Because it was originally hired into the crew allowing the modification of the requisite spell.

[Ausplosions]

You are not understanding the question at all, so let me be clearer.

You hire a Rouge Necromancy in to the crew which would allow the modification of the Summoning spells of Nicodem or McMourning. During the game it dies which would allow you the opportunity to summon another one in game. Because it was hired initially and modified the relevant spells, Nicodem or McMourning would now be able to use the modified spell to summon another one.

This is a lot different than never having had the Rogue Necromancy in the crew at all but allowing it to modify their spells and allowing them to summon them.

No, it's no different to any ability changing hiring restrictions. Otherwise you couldn't hire Mctavish in a Gremlin crew until it was hired in a Gremlin crew, as it's ability to be hired in a gremlin crew is printed on it's card.

[Toonook]

+1 Ausplosions

[Omenbringer]

No, it's no different to any ability changing hiring restrictions. Otherwise you couldn't hire Mctavish in a Gremlin crew until it was hired in a Gremlin crew, as it's ability to be hired in a gremlin crew is printed on it's card.

This is a bad example since McTavish (and several other models with similar abilities) modify the hiring rules (which occur prior to the game) and not Summoning actions that are utilized during play.

Once again I assume that it was intended to function this way but can see arguments the other way as well. Clarification is always a good thing.

[Ausplosions]

You must be a lawyer.

You are complicating something that is self-evident to everyone but you.

So you are saying that the summoning rules are changed in-game by hiring the RM?

But if that model is killed, it's card is no longer 'hired' or 'in play'. So any changes it makes to the game end. So it's changes to summoning no longer effect the game. So it can't be summoned. Ever.

We can do this dance all day mate, but there is no point. You are trying to find something where there is nothing.

---------- Post added at 11:13 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:11 AM ----------

Okay, will not post this anymore in here. Let's take it to the rules discussion...

For some reason...

[Jewomie]

My only confusion on this is why are you just now bringing this up?

Look (if you will) at the Rogue Necromancy... His ability lets him be summoned by the good doctor. So, based on what you're saying, you have to hire him, then let him get killed, before you are allowed to summon him again...

If this were true, why would Calmdown (among so many others) be hiring crews with McMourning that do not contain the RN, then hiring him... at tournaments? I feel like if this were a violation of the summoning rules... this would have been caught by someone prior to tonight. i mean... book 2 came out well over a year ago.

[Omenbringer]

The Malifaux Rules discussion forum is where it should be taking place.

I would caution that you remain civil though, your tone could very easily be considered overly aggresive.

[Ausplosions]

your tone could very easily be considered overly aggresive.

It's not.

[Q'iq'el]

Back to Dead Doxies:

When you have a support model with buffs/debuffs, you have to consider what model will benefit from those. Seduction may be hard to cast, but in a Ressurectionist crew it will benefit Bête Noire, Punk Zombies, Dead Rider... perhaps even Bolstered by Nicodem or buffed by Nurses. When you have a powerful attack to set up and perhaps take down enemy master or to ensure the objective (model) is killed, it is well worth spending a high card to get it through (at the very least the opponent will have less cards to cheat your attack once it starts).

Undress is just as valuable debuff when you go against likes of Lilith or Perdita.

Showgirls' Seduction does open way for Coryphée or perhaps some high-punch Outcast mercenary, but there is not much in terms of very powerful attacks Colette brings to the table. Rezzers are in completely different position and the debuff is quite a bit more valuable in this situation (even if harder to cast).

Last but not least, it is not on a fragile model which has to survive from the beginning of the game till the decisive moment. It is on a model you can Summon, springing it up in a decisive moment.

As far as I can see, the Dead Doxy's mobility is tailored to this purpose as well - you can pop her up from distance, in a location convenient for your master, and she'll still get in range to do the spell, thanks to Inviting Approach.

So as long as you have the right cards, why not summon her to prepare your target? You'll spend good cards, but you'll likely save on Soulstones.

[Omenbringer]

I also like the potential use as a delivery system for Sybelle via Final Encore.