Strategy advice

[niil945]

Hello folks. I recently got into Malifaux after many years of avoiding miniature wargaming. Not because I didn't enjoy them, but because I'm not a fan of Games Workshop and their round robin buffing armies. Listening to my friends at the time who played, conversations were centered on which army got a new book and how that new army smashes everything but they changed all the units up so what made a good army before doesn't work (which required buying more models). I just didn't want to buy into the cyclical money dump engine that GW has going. My friends recently started playing Malifaux and after much prodding I took a look at the crews and found one I liked.

So I picked up Rasputina. I played one game with the base box and decided to look at other units that fit that same theme. I then stumbled onto the Snow Storm (and a few other units). It seemed to fix all my issues with my lack of mobility and life goes on. Since that point, I've built my crew for any particular game around the Snow Storm + Silent One. My friends have had serious issues with battling the combination of extremely long range, very destructive spells and the behemoth that is the Snow Storm. So I find myself here, hoping I can find some advice for my opponents in order to make the games more fun for everyone.

We're still early on in learning the game. Most of us have bought a little more than a crew box. I have a friend who plays Ramos (guy with a scalpal who uses body parts for things) though he also has Predita (gunslinger master, I think I'm getting the names right). Are these just a bad match up against Rasputina with Snow Storm? Are there core units that they should be fielding that aren't part of the base crew boxes (sort of like the Snow Storm is for Rasputina)? Should I just set Snow Storm aside and play with other units? At this point every game I've played with Rasputina except the first where I just used the base crew box I've annihilated my opponents without losing a single unit. The games typically end on turn 4. I'd much rather have fun games for everyone, and to be frank I tend not to enjoy it if I win all the time. Plus, I'd rather not have folks get discouraged by losses and lose interest in the game or switch to one of the many other miniature wargames they have that I don't, as I'm enjoying the hobby very much =p Any suggestions?

---------- Post added at 01:17 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:34 AM ----------

Just as an addendum, I'm not trying to say I'm an amazing player. Quite the opposite, I'm very green. I just feel that Rasputina has a strong, easy to execute playstyle and that the Snow Storm addresses her particular flaws very handily. I'm not implying that it's overpowered in any way. I'm not educated enough on the various factions and units to make that determination. I'm just hoping to walk away with a recommendation for core units that can stand up to the combination I have that I can suggest my friends purchase to improve the synergy of their units, or a strategy that works with those particular faction boxes that they might employ to even the odds a bit, or if all else fails the knowledge that maybe I just need to pack the Snow Storm in and try ...less brute forcing, maybe trying out December Acolytes or Hoarcat Packs or something to spice up the games.

Or maybe we're interpreting the rules incorrectly in some way that gives me an advantage. What I tend to do is have the Snow Storm lead the charge to whatever my objective is (treasure seems to be the common one we get). I keep a Silent One a little back from that but within range to boost the range of my units attacks with their one spell. Then I have Rasputina back even further, and cast through Perfect Mirror or Ice Mirror and wreck anything within a large range of my Snow Storm or Silent One. A couple of times my Snow Storm got low on health but I was always able to heal it to full by killing something. The effort to get it low took many attacks from multiple units that were reduced by Spirit, Bulletproof, and the armor from December's Touch. After that my friend gave up on trying to kill the Snow Storm. Is this consistent with the experiences people have facing off with Rasputina + Snow Storm + Silent One?

[Alex]

I thinl part of the problem is that yes, Snow Storm is rough to go against for those two crews out of the box. The scalpel-slinging Resurrectionist in particular (Dr. McMourning) is going to want a number of additional models to start, as he is mainly a summoning-style master. Recommend for him the Zombie Chihuahua and at least one blister of Canine Remains, plus a bunch of undead to summon, including a rogue Necromancy, probably another Flesh Construct, Rotten Belles, Crooked Men, Punk Zombies and Necropunks. Ressers unfortunately do want a large collection for their play style. In particular, a Belle and a Crooked Man I think can really mess with Raspy's Snow Storm strategy; Belle can draw models out of position or into one of Crooked Man's traps, plus Crooked has some blast effects. Caveat: have not played this matchup personally so may not interact as I think they will.
Perdita's box is strong but Snow Storm messes with ranged models. Magic weapons and damaging spells do full damage vs spirits, so maybe models from Sonnia's set? Executioner is also a great Guild mpdel overall for starting players; heals to full wounds whenever it kills. I am not a big Guild player so not really sure, but the PullMyFinger wiki has a lot of great info.
Personally, I like to be playing my Lilith crew against Rasputina. Casting Transposition on Snow Storm tp put a Mature Nephilim or other beatstick into the midst and put SS in a bad position is my favorite thing.
Anyway, best of luck to all of you, and keep having fun. Even if it means shelving Snow Storm occasionally til your opponents get used to the game.

[sinistercats]

1) Check that you have more terrain? If Raspy gets lots of clear fire lanes she's nasty.
2) I just played a game last night with Lilith vs Raspy (without Snowstorm) and got smashed!
3) Make sure that Ice Wind is being used correctly with the ranges, etc.

[niil945]

Thanks much guys.

@Alex
I'll let him know about Rotten Belle, Crooked Man, and rogue Necromancy. I know he has Canine Remains as he summoned one during the fight. I don't think he has the above models though or the Zombie Chihuahua. He also has a flesh golem of some kind, but he didn't summon him in the fight. How important is it that he summons that thing asap? He typically uses body parts to give his guy Fast and gets him into the fray. Kinda difficult for me to figure out what's going on with his crews at this point, as we're still relatively new and I'm trying to figure out everything I can do with my models and, at this point, I'm not paying much attention to what units I'm facing off with. I tend to think maybe he's employing a strategy that doesn't work with his guys, as he tries to stick behind cover and get to the center, while I'm just rushing toward the center also. Then I force him to engage the Snow Storm and just clean up everything that comes close. I'll have to look over Ramos and his units and see if maybe I can give him some different ideas on how to play them. It sounds like Rotten Belle and Crooked Man might give him some interesting options to play with that he just doesn't have right now.

@sinistercats
Currently we have lots and lots of terrain from their other wargaming. But the models aren't really suited to play for Malifaux. He has lots of ruins that have very large bases, built so units can move across the entire piece (maybe 12" by 12") and one game I used Rasputinas power to freeze the terrain. After a discussion we agreed that it didn't work well with those terrain pieces due to how large the base is and I just stopped using that particular power. As far as rules, I'm trying to read up a lot here and from the rules PDF to make sure we're doing everything correctly. I use North Wind correctly (doesn't increase Ice Mirror range) and I *think* we're doing Ice Wind correctly. Is there something funky about that particular spell that I need to be careful of? Honestly I don't use it much, I think once in the last game total. I just healed a Silent One that took a ranged attack with no enemies around.

After a thorough reading through of the rules I did find a couple of things we were doing wrong that will benefit everyone. For some reason we got it in our heads that damage flips couldn't be cheated. We also didn't know that Heal was a general action for units with Use Soulstone, so masters were taking a beating and not healing. That should help him focus down the Snow Storm and also keep his masters alive a little longer.

[sinistercats]

Yeah- I meant North Wind- that was my bad. And freezing things to terrain is nice but not on huge pieces like that. :(

[SpiralngCadavr]

Hi, I'd definitely recommend getting the mini rulebook- all of those redacted sections in the online one are examples that clear a lot of stuff up, and it's well worth it for that and portability.

Something worth noting is that you can negate damage, which is often as effective as healing, but doesn't take an action.

Also, coming from a situation with large terrain, we found the best way is to somehow nominate sections of large pieces, that each count as one object. For instance, rooms, different sections of texture, multiple small components on one larger base, or just dividing it roughly into 6x6" sections all allow bigger pieces to be used.

[Cadfan]

The rulebook suggests that terrain be approximately 3x3 in size.

I'm not sure how this quite squares itself with the rules on forests, which clearly involve forests at least 6 inches deep.

But elsewhere, it suggests 3x3 as a good size for terrain pieces. This dramatically reduces the amount of models you're likely to freeze in place with that spell.

[niil945]

@SpiralngCadavr

That's a great idea and one that we started talking about something similar last night. We went with 1" around the individual wall segments of the ruins counted as touching that wall segments base. One large ruin he has has 4 different building pieces on the base. We didn't use it in our last game but a combination of those ideas could result in a manageable method for segregating the components on the table. At this point though I'm hesitant to implement it until we get some more plays in as he's already having a tough time against me. Regarding the rule book, we have one copy amongst the lot of us (6 different players) that we share, we end up using ipads or phones and the pdf a lot. I've started making cheat sheets for everyone with rules summaries for all the things on their models that aren't detailed on the stat cards for easy reference.

@ Cadfan
We might have to rethink how we're placing terrain. Typically he has it preset by the time I get there, then we pick sides based on flips. I think maybe we need to use less terrain of the kind we have and implement things like fog zones or other environmental effects that he can take advantage of against my army. Right now it's just a lot of ruined ht 1 wall segments and building ruins that are so clustered they're not good for tactical positioning. Those areas tend to get avoided on the board rather than used strategically because they offer no real advantage other than delaying movement around that area of the board. Because we have those types of terrain pieces the center usually ends up a killing field with the buildings around it, which I think favors me heavily. Those are all things he has from other wargames that I don't think fit well with this particular type of skirmish game.

Thanks much to both of you, you've given me things to think about to help enhance our games.

[Cadfan]

The exact rules from the book are this: They recommend that the battlefield feature 2 to 4 terrain pieces of 3x3 per square foot. The battlefield is 36 inches per side, so that's nine square feet. The recommended board therefore has 18 to 36 items on it, each taking up approximately 3x3 inches.

This isn't a hard and fast rule, and conflicts slightly with all the rules for forests six inches deep or further. But its a general guide to what you should be looking for. If you play the game on a giant open field with clear line of sight, Rasputina is going to clean house. She's not only got some of the longest range high damage attacks in the game, she can even create her own terrain.

[niil945]

I haven't counted the number of terrain pieces we use, it just ends up that the other player sets up the terrain beforehand, and he tends to put the bigger terrain at specific spots which leave the center clear. Sorta like this...

.............................
.....X................X....
.............................
.............................
.....X..............X.......
.............................

With the X's being the bigger terrain pieces (12x12 building base with ruined walls, a tower thing that he has, a small ~4x4 solid chapel, etc), then he litters the inner area with small walls less than ht 1. I'm not certain why he uses this setup. I think maybe putting the tower in the center and maybe adding some environmental effects like smog/fog or larger forest (he uses single trees with a base now, which is great but doesn't really make a foresty type area on the board, he could put them all in an area to represent a forest instead of having single trees littered about).

I think I'm gonna ask him if we can take turns placing terrain next time and start with a fresh board.