Killjoy

[Spiku]

Yeah, as you can imagine I was quite amused when I realised that Som'er isn't as bound as Ophelia in brawls~

[Guy in Suit]

Stacking the deck for Pigapult defense flips with Zoraida's crystal ball is also quite fun.

[Spiku]

As is obey on Pere after Som'er gives him Hard To Kill, or a nurse gives him undying

Or red joker farming with two mosquitoes and Seamus in Ratty format ;D

[Cthulhurising]

Did you obey Killjoy much on that?

No actually, what I did was done to Nekima. It was a pretty solid game of Killjoy at midfield killing everything, and Nekima behind cover (not sure why he had her behind cover) Wrecking those models. Just a lot of onslaught triggers so every Ap was spent on a different model really.

Come to think of it, his onslaught ain't that bad. Not much lives after a shot anyway.... :D

[Csonti]

I'm just interested in how people feel about him having 3 actions in their deployment before being able to mince him, and if he will make his points back

Just a slight correction: provided you have outactivated your opponent you will have at least 3 actions (+Onslaught) with Killjoy and could get 3 more (+Onslaught) if you win the next initiative. Even without the initiative, some crews just don't have the power to kill Killjoy in one activation.

Anyway I can't remember a game where Killjoy did not manage to earn his (its) salt. I saw Perdita die despite she was using SS, I saw roughly 20 points of minions killed in a whirlwind of death, I saw games turning upside down when he (it) arrived at last. Cheap Slow to Die models make him (it) shine even more just because of the threat his (its) likely appearance provides.

On the other hand I'm not sure that droping Killjoy early is always the best option in a game.

[Spiku]

Csonti, that is not a correction. I was asking a very specific question; 3 actions and on 1st turn.

I am fully aware of his more usual uses; counter drop model when you've had time to stack your hand.

[Csonti]

Csonti, that is not a correction. I was asking a very specific question; 3 actions and on 1st turn.

Problem is that you drag the situation out of game context. That's why I put the correction or clarification. Will 3 actions yield enough payback to put Killjoy in your opponent DZ in turn 1? is a wrong (or non-existing) question.

Counting in the possibility of winning the 2nd turn's initiative and the chance that your opponent can't kill it in his or her first action even if you lose the initiative flip transforms your question like this: Will 4,5+ actions yield enough payback to put Killjoy in your opponent DZ in turn 1? That is 3 in turn one, plus 3 with a 50% chance in turn two (not counting in cards in Hand and SS use) plus some more for suviving after a lost initiative.

[Spiku]

No, it is a very specific question. 3 actions, no more, no less; no inbuilt onslaught, no concern for the following turn. I am looking at, very specifically, how people feel he will return with just what I have set up.

In the same way I didn't care to explain HOW I did it, I am asking in isolation. You may think that I want to know how he will fare with variables included, but I dont. I am aware that I can flip masks, that I might have a strong hand, that I could win iniatiatve to get further actions, that my opponent might not be able to respond with just one activation.

Just like I am aware they might not be in the deployment zone.

All I'm interested is in how people feel about the specific scenario I have raised. That you have a problem with it does not matter. That is my question.


And in any regard, it is still 3 base actions, it just happens that the attacks have a mask trigger for extra attacks. To correct on page 3 is suggesting that we weren't aware of it, despite discussing it already. Your addition is belated, and unneeded.

[Csonti]

Nevermind.

[CN the Logos]

Onslaught doesn't give extra actions anyway. It's just another Strike against the same target, which is performed immediately after the initial strike deals damage. Given a slightly better than ten percent chance that any given card will be an eight or higher of Masks and the fact that you start with six cards in your hand assuming no Arcane Reservoir or similar effect (remember kids, Primordial Magic is your friend!), it's probable that at least one of those three strikes will be an Onslaught.

In any case, asking what the returns on a single first turn activation of Killjoy are is meaningless when we don't have context. It (He? She? I don't think the book says, and while priming the model I noticed it looked like s/he'd been mutilated in that region... which I suppose justifies the whole "hunter of hir own kind" thing) is a brute, but utilizing it still requires strategy and tactics, especially given the fact that it's likely to represent over 1/3 of your available soulstones for hiring. If your opponent is running, say, gremlins and Killjoy manages to kill three Bayou Gremlins EXTRA DEAD before getting annihilated by the counterattack, that doesn't benefit you any more than using other, cheaper models to kill those gremlins (because as far as I know, there's no direct benefit from overkill in Malifaux, aside from making it harder for soulstone users to save themselves).

On the other hand, if the opposing crew consists of a moderate to large number of models that focus more on utility or spellcasting than pure offense, those same three AP could take out a couple of models that were vital to that crew's function and swing the game in your favor even if Killjoy bites it as soon as your opponent activates. On the other other hand, if the opposing crew consists of a small number of high cost models, Killjoy might not be able to destroy multiple models in one activation, but it can focus on one enemy model at a time, and your opponent will have to devote a larger proportion of his force to a counterattack. Depending on the high cost models in question, they may not be much more likely to kill Killjoy than a similar number of lower cost models.

So, in this hypothetical scenario, what are we up against?