new pandora player

[lokis222]

hi,
i have been going over the forums here and i see a lot of stuff about the dreamer, lillith, and collette (sp?), but i see very little about pandora.
i picked her box set up and a teddy. i have only had one game so far, but i thought she had a lot of potential, but is very hard to use. i have read a few tacticas on her and i was wondering what people thought about her?
what sort of schemes do you use, etc.
cheers,
josh

[Fetid Strumpet]

Pandora can be a tricky master to use, and she is definitely up there in the competitive master ranks. A good resource to listen to would be the Aethervox podcast Pandora the Explorer, where the great Aethervox guys interview Karn about Pandora tactics. You can also download a tactica by karn at tabletopgeeks. She has a very unique playstyle, and some truly hideous combos you should be aware how to do, but not bring out of your bag all that often.

My personal recommendations I'd be happy to share as I play Pandora, but understand that I'm a very competitive player and I tend to look at models in most cases mainly for what they bring to the table more than any other factor, (although I find myself unable to not bring Molly in many games I play even though I don't feel she's worth 9 SS, Curses!).

Pandora is all about positioning, and activation order. You need to get used to how here movement works via causing multiple WP duels with her pacify/incite powers, getting into position, and then hammering with spells to cause wounds via Emotional Trauma, and forcing them to run via her trigger on spells she casts. Understanding how to keep her protected from reprisals, and when to use your own crew to target her with WP duels to give her extra pushes are also critical.

The first thing is that overall your crew wants to be taking advantage of as many ways to cause WP duels to your opponent, remember if the opponent fails a WP duel of any kind within 12" of Pandora they take a wd in addition to other effects of losing the duel. So Models like Lilitu, Stitched Together, and Insidious Madness tend to be some of Pandora's go to minions. You will also want to explore the opportunities offered by the Doppleganger, as she not only gives the opponent a double negative flip on initiative flips, but is also the source of many totally abusive combos you can do with Pandora. Totem wise Pandora has two available options to her, the master specific poltergeist and the faction available one, the Primordial Magic. Of the two I prefer the Primordial Magic, as the extra card in your hand is really worth its weight in gold.

Pandora herself is VERY good, fully capable of going head to head on her own against some crews and holding them down, but what you need to be aware of is that irrespective of her power level Pandora is very much regarded as a potential Negative Play Experience for many opponents. The way she works is outside how many masters in Malifaux opperate, and I've heard it said that when you play against Pandora it feels like you stop playing Malifaux and start playing a game called Pandora. So once you start learning the nasty tricks she can do (and she really has alot of nasty tricks) the next step is learning what kind of game you opponent wants to play, as it is very easy once you really begin to learn her, to thrash your opponent in a way that is not fun to experience. Please do not take that as a veiled warning not to play her, she is very characterful and was almost the first master I chose when getting into the game. Just remember when you do start mastering her that she is one of the masters that requires some care given to how you interact with the opponent to make an enjoyable game.

Good Luck.

[lokis222]

thanks. i have read that tactica from tabletopgeeks. i bought her because she came with baby kade and i liked the teddy bear combo idea.

what do you mean by learning what kind of game my opponent wants? do you mean the competative vs fluff vs a combination?

[Fetid Strumpet]

Yes, you have to be very careful with Pandora because it is very easy to slip into a method of play that irrespective of power level just is not fun to play against. Make certain you know in advance how your opponent wants to play before busting her out. =) Listen to the tactica, it's worth it.

[lokis222]

she is my only master, so i will just have to be careful.

[Tarragon]

I started with Pandora, and in the end had to shelf her for Liloith until my opponent felt he was able to cope with 'Dora's style.

I think Fetid Strumpet said it all, really, but I'll throw in my 2c.

She relies on very much exploiting the WP, by just stacking dual after duel on the opponents models, and raising the price of failing even one of those duels. The rest of her crew add to these duels, but 'Dora can quite capably hold down the entire enemy crew by herself.

If you want to try to not slip into the power ditch and start playing in a 'negative' way for your opponent, you can make it difficult for yourself by bringing her Avatar (generally looked at as a step-down), Minions that don't really fit (Teddy/Baby Kade combo is good, although there could be some play with the Terrifying rules there), or particularly difficult schemes for yourself (Anything requiring mass killing, for example).

[Zwergenkrieger]

I just play Pandora and nothing else, though I´m a newbe myself. Reason I chose Pandora was Baby Kade and Sorrows which are in her boxed set, so I just bought the set and went with it.

In opposite of a lot of players outside I don´t think Pandora is broken or especially unfun to play against. I really can´t see a reason why she should be worse than any other powerful master who allows for nasty (or even dirty) tricks. And there are many tricks out there!

I think that part of a negative play experience when playing against Pandora is that feeling that you are at the mercy of Pandora´s style ofplay or set of rules. Ie I see a lot of her rules are able to cause that "What should I do against this?". And IMO that´s what Fetid Strumpet called

the next step is learning what kind of game you opponent wants to play

Therefore if your opponent is willing to use all of the dirt tricks he has access to, feel free to do the same with Pandora too. Don´t feel bad about it.

Be it Somer´s Mosquito shenanigans to outactivate any player and to cause wounds you can´t defend against, be it the Austringer´s "I´ll shoot you whereever you hide", be it Kirai´s force of recycling spirits which are also hard to bring down, there are lots and lots of unfun game mechanics in that game. But IMO these are only unfun if you look at them in a vacuum. I feel that the dirty tricks are something this game is made of or at least based upon.

When I look back to warmachine which I played before switchng to Malifaux, those dirty tricks regularly upset me, because due to the activation order of that game you couldn´t really defend against these dirty tricks and therefore they often caused the game to end within 2 rounds. That is negative play experience IMO!

Malifaux is totally different! Almost no dirty trick is able to end the game within 1-2 rounds. And that´s why I´m ok with them. Regardless of all these tricks I still enjoy the games and I often feel that the outcome of a game is still open. At least you´re able to go for your shemes even if the strategy is already lost which causes you to still fight, which can still give you a thrilling game.

That´s why I don´t feel guilty to bring Pandra!

Therefore, go and enjoy her!

One thing you should have in mind: you need experience to successfully play with and against Pandora, therfore if your opponent lacks that experience, don´t go for the dirty tricks to not encourage your opponent! Just adapt to the overall powerlevel of your local meta and everything is fine.

Oh and by the way, Pandora with her boxed set and an additional Teddy is anything but powerful! Noone should ever complain about such a crew!

[mattbird]

In opposite of a lot of players outside I don´t think Pandora is broken or especially unfun to play against. I really can´t see a reason why she should be worse than any other powerful master who allows for nasty (or even dirty) tricks. And there are many tricks out there!

Because when played well your opponent gets to do absolutely nothing apart from making dozens of WP duels and taking models off the board? having said that, I can see Hamelin being equally frustrating. Not sure if any other masters fall into that category?

I love her, don't get me wrong, but I have had players literally quit Malifaux after playing against her. She can be VERY frustrating to play against.

[lokis222]

yeah, i saw that. so, i am sticking to my original crew for awhile. i might pull out the stops if we have a tournament, but for now, i am sticking to pandora, candy, baby kade, 3 sorrows and teddy.
baby kade and teddy bring some melee action to the game to offset the Wp duels. i also grabbed a lilith box set to change things up.

i do agree with Zwergenkreger though. i don't think she is unfun to play against. the other person still gets their regular turn. during my turn, they play my mechanic and i am purposely avoiding the broken builds.

[mattbird]

the other person still gets their regular turn. during my turn, they play my mechanic...

If you play her correctly, the only target they would have available is Pandora herself, usually 1 WP duel away from complete safety. And that is only for the models she has not forced to fall back, which can be quite a few.

---------- Post added at 10:23 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:23 AM ----------

a good player should be able to mitigated this though? things like stubbron, things that attack pandora's willpower, blasts, and there must be more.... that is off the top of my head.

anything that does not target her is really the only threat there is. So year, auras or pulses or blasts are the way to go.

illusions, things that cut down on line of sight, model spacing....

spacing way out and keeping out of LOS is effective- but then that also hinders what you are trying to do.

hell, with the viks and ronin, i can think of several ways to destroyer her. well one way, but the viks don't seem to really have that many tricks up their sleeve.

ie 21 inch leap, kill sorrow, kill sorrow, kill sorrow, and don't attack pandora. she might wipe the viks.... she might not, but after that, use the ronins speed and viks speed and play the objectives. a three inch move is only good if you can get into range and line of sight.

---------- Post added at 08:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:08 PM ----------

with the sorrows gone, she can't have that spell cast on her that makes her take Wp checks for every action.

I never take sorrows, as in my experience having them linked to her just means they are the primary target, especially for things like blasts. When they are NOT linked to her, they just get killed anyway. So basically, yeah- sorrows make her way more vulnerable.

---------- Post added at 10:39 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:23 AM ----------

Re: a friendly crew with Pandora, I think if you run the box set + teddy, and don't take extra soulstones, that's relatively friendly assuming you link sorrows to her, or don't just sit back with your crew while she spearheads the attack?