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Thread: Bent Gun Barrel and Gunfighter
02-06-2012, 10:43 AM #1
Bent Gun Barrel and Gunfighter
If Ophelia is engaged in melee 2" from an enemy what is the range on her melee atack when she uses Bent Gun Barrel?
Bent Gun Barrel says "This model's Pistol Strikes receive -4 Rg and ignore Armor."
Gunfighter says "This model can make melee Strikes against enemy models up to 2" away with the indicated range weapon. The weapon gains /melee icon/ and losses /pistol icon/ when making these Strikes. Talents that reference the indicated Weapon may be used in melee."
So when she casts it what is her melee range?
02-06-2012, 10:48 AM #2
I'd say 2". Gunfighter replaces the 'pistol' symbol with a 'melee' symbol. You are still making a Pistol strike so anything affecting the Pistol would still work, it is just the type of strike that has changed due to Gunfighter.
02-06-2012, 11:03 AM #3
Noted but even melee strikes have a Rg, usually 1-3 inches. I wasn't sure if the range penalty makes bent gun barrel one of the following:
A) unusable in melee (range 0)
B) reduces her melee range to 1
C) Vmag's response, bent gun barrel has no impact to the gunfighter attacks (besides ignoring armor).
02-06-2012, 11:20 AM #4
I appologize, I misread your original post. I read the -4 Rg as -4 Cb. No idea now!
Edited update: I'd actually still go with 2". You cast Bent which reduces your range by 4. You then make a melee strike with the Pistol via Gunfighter. Gunfighter changes the range of your Pistol strike to 2" whilst engaged in Melee. I'm basing this argument on stacking effects.
So if you were to make a melee strike with the Pistol you'd have a range of 2", if you were to follow this with a ranged strike you'd have the Rg -4.
Last edited by Vmag; 02-06-2012 at 11:30 AM.
02-06-2012, 11:55 AM #5
Calculating range with Bent Gun Barrel active with Ophilia:
Pistol at range
Rg stat starts at 8 -4 so the range is 4"
when using gunfighter (engaged by a model with 2" melee)
is it the 4" is replaced by the 2"
is the 2" gunfighter subject to the -4" from bent gun barrel.
Bent gun barrel states that Pistol(which is the name of her weapon) strikes are -4 rg and ignore armor OR is it referencing the pistol icon?
02-06-2012, 12:12 PM #6
4" replaced by the 2". Not 2" due to Gunfighter THEN -4" due to Bent.
I can honestly seeing this going either way though. It depends on whether the Bent takes precedence over Gunfighter. Personally I don't think it does but this is just how I'd reason through it. We've always played models with Gunfighter as ONLY having the 2" melee range when they are actively making a melee strike or are engaged by opposing models with a melee strike range of 2" or more. When it comes to disengaging strikes or determining the engaged range we use the 1" Bash for Gunfighter models without a Melee weapon. Again, this is just our own house rule, not sure what the official is...
Last edited by Vmag; 02-06-2012 at 12:22 PM.
02-06-2012, 12:25 PM #7
I am just not sure why the gunfighter Rg is not subject to the bent barrel reduction to Rg. The wording is pistol strikes. It does not specify ONLY ranged strikes. Melee attacks have a Rg stat and I think the bent barrel Rg penalty would apply to both.
Gunfighter changes her weapon (named PISTOL) stat to: Rg 2 (melee icon)
If it does and Ophialia has the bent barrel spell active which states: "PISTOL (her weapon) strikes are -4 Rg and ignore armor"
02-06-2012, 01:00 PM #8
You may very well be right in your first paragraph. Again this is just how we've played it and how I understand it. Bent is cast, the Pistol (I realize this is the weapon with Rg8) gains Rg -4 and Ignore Armor. Any strike (melee or ranged) from the Pistol until the Bent effect is lost/removed has these attributes. BUT, when the Pistol is used as a Melee weapon, it GAINS the Gunfighter ability of Rg 2". The weapon retains the Bent characteristics but for that one melee strike the Rg changes to 2". And this is where we diverge in our reasoning. Does Bent then come into play again after the Pistol gains Gunfighter and the Rg -4 is applied again which means the Melee range of Gunfighter is altered to 0" (-2"?) or does the Bent Pistol have Gunfighter applied to it, the melee strike is resolved, Gunfighter is removed, and Bent returns as normal. We've just played it as the latter as if Gunfighter is a temporary ability gained only when the model makes a melee strike with the weapon.
I guess to me the question is more about the Gunfighter ability, is it always 'on' or does it occur only when making a melee strike then it is gone. If it is something that is always 'on' (the model ALWAYS has a melee range of 2") then I could see Bent adjusting the Rg of the Pistol's melee strike to 0" and therefore not advisable for melee combat. If Gunfighter acts as an effect that layers on top of Bent only for each melee strike then I'd say that the Rg and any Rg effects are replaced by the Gunfighter Rg of 2". The Ignore Armor from Bent still works since Bent hasn't been removed at all, only a portion of what it does has been adjusted by the Gunfighter ability.
But as I've said, I can completely see this going either way. Bent = no melee range, or Bent = 2" melee range.
02-06-2012, 01:20 PM #9
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Rules as written - who knows, it can be read either way.
Rules as intended (by Wyrd) - don't know til they clarify
Rules as intended (my common sense interpretation/train of thought) - Gun has a range of what? 10"? Bent gun barrel reduces that to 6 because the barrel is bent. Gunfighter drops range to 2", In the assumption that this would be a short range melee shot. There's no conceivable reason why the gun wouldn't be able to still shoot to 2" away.
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02-06-2012, 02:01 PM #10
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