Slumming it: Calmdown's Rezzers 2012 Diary

[dgraz]

How is this possible with a Tier 5 model?

Funny. Calmdown doesn't need my defense, but he did say that the tiers were objective.....based on the same luck and same player skill. But it does illustrate why people say the tiers are useless....with the right player behind it, even the worst model can perform well......look at UKRocky with Marcus.

[Orboros]

So .. better nerf Calmdown and UKRocky then?

[huntroll]

Funny. Calmdown doesn't need my defense, but he did say that the tiers were objective.....based on the same luck and same player skill. But it does illustrate why people say the tiers are useless....with the right player behind it, even the worst model can perform well......look at UKRocky with Marcus.

I find it really funny that a lot of people still consider Marcus weak. Imho even in Book 1 times, he was more useful in most scenarios than the other two Arcanist masters.

[Kadeton]

Funny. Calmdown doesn't need my defense, but he did say that the tiers were objective.....based on the same luck and same player skill. But it does illustrate why people say the tiers are useless....with the right player behind it, even the worst model can perform well......look at UKRocky with Marcus.

The idea of "objective tiers" is nonsense - even if it were possible to remove luck and player skill from the comparison, that comparison is still based on various players' subjective opinions of the Masters involved.

As for "with the right player behind it, even the worst model can perform well," I'll believe that when someone wins a major tournament with a Molly crew. :P

[Q'iq'el]

As for "with the right player behind it, even the worst model can perform well," I'll believe that when someone wins a major tournament with a Molly crew. :P

It's been said about Marcus before. Then people claimed the new models made him work, once they had been proven wrong... And now people say Marcus had been good all along. :P

The truth is Marcus has become good when someone put their time into figuring out how to play him.

I'm not saying Molly has some hidden power level, but there may be the combination of the above factors needed - a good player coming up with a way to play her after some new models get released.

[Math Mathonwy]

I find it really funny that a lot of people still consider Marcus weak. Imho even in Book 1 times, he was more useful in most scenarios than the other two Arcanist masters.

He is more mobile than Rasputina/Ramos and mobility is king in this game. But with Marcus you need to play different (very objective focused) which isn't as streightforward as say, Tina's style.

The idea of "objective tiers" is nonsense - even if it were possible to remove luck and player skill from the comparison, that comparison is still based on various players' subjective opinions of the Masters involved.

As for "with the right player behind it, even the worst model can perform well," I'll believe that when someone wins a major tournament with a Molly crew. :P

Your first paragraph contradicts the second. "There are no objective tiers but these certain models are objectively worse than others".

[Q'iq'el]

Your first paragraph contradicts the second. "There are no objective tiers but these certain models are objectively worse than others".

Answering for Kadeton here, but at best this is an indirect contradiction.

The posters pointing out the Calmdown's tiers suggest some clear power-level difference between masters, which isn't all that apparent in Malifaux, were right. That's exactly what the tiers suggest and that's exactly what doesn't come out in practical experience of many players.

The tiers suggest not only problems with particular rules or synergies, but systemic imbalance in the game. That's why I've said on the side that I see only two tiers in Malifaux - "quite balanced" and "needs some more work". Dreamer and Hamelin may need some more work and so may Molly, but it doesn't make systemic imbalance and it doesn't mean the masters can be divided into tiers clearly.

To sum up, saying Molly is weaker and needs some more work is not the same thing as saying she is systemically condemned to some lowest tier, which cannot be helped without fixing the entire game.

[Calmdown]

How is this possible with a Tier 5 model?

What you should ask yourself, is if I was playing a master that was higher tier, would I have won the tournament instead of coming second?

I havent posted the final report yet, but the answer is almost certainly yes. Nicodem with bad luck could only manage a draw. Had I been playing Kirai and had a bit of bad luck, I still would have likely not lost her because she has a proper defense mechanism and the main resason I lost is that Nicodem can't take a hit.

So you can look at it as "Tier 5 managed second, that is great!" or you can look at it as "Only managed to get second thanks to master being Tier 5". I look at it the second way, personally.

[Spiku]

I look it as "You fought weaker/new players and got a high VP yield for it" =3

[Soundwave]

How is this possible with a Tier 5 model?

I enjoy reading this thread and I'd be a tad saddened if it'd be assimilated by the already sort of infected tier-list. It's not like it's constructive anyways.

Anyways, keep the batreps coming, CD, always enjoyable reads.