Crooligans vs Necropunks

[Twisted Metal]

For some reason I am having a very difficult time trying to decided between the Crooligans and the Necropunks. As a result I started to basicly write out the pro and cons of both in a poor attempt to make up my mind. I would love to hear any thoughts, criticisms, or comments. Awyway…

Stats: Both have almost an identical stat line with the exception of 1" less of charge and 1 less Cb on the crooligans. The Crooligans have a mask on their cast. Their melee range and wounds are the same. I think the Crooligans win this category despite their short comings. This is because mask on the cast is far more important than the extra charge distance or Cb.

Damage: The base damage is the same except the Crooligans have poison and have the potential to do an extra point via malignant rot. The Necropunks can flurry and have the rot trigger which gives the potential to inflict more damage overall. I think Necropunks win this category hands down. I feel that the crooligans can use their knife as a last resort to finish something off but a Necropunk that gets off flurry can not only finish something off but take down a whole model by its self.

Defense: Both models have strong defenses however both are radically different. The Necropunk has the incredibly annoying combo of hard to kill and slow to die. This allows him remain at one wound regardless of the amount of damage he just suffered. This means that your opponent has to dedicate at least two standard attacks to get rid of him. If the attacker is slowed from the overpower ability then more likely than not those two attacks will have to come from two different sources. Once you finally remove the necropunk's last wound he still has one final AP to either punch you with or to do some other 1ap action such as bring in Kill Joy.
The Crooligans have a very different defense which also has several components to it. Where the Necropunks have the ability to survive an attack the Crooligans defend themselves by denying the attack from happening. At the forefront of their defense is a spell called The Mist. It generates a 3” aura which counts as Obscuring. Basically they live by the moto you can’t shoot something you cant see. In addition when the Mist is active they gain a bonus to their walk and to their defense stat. So not only can you not shoot them because of they are obscured but you will have a difficult time hitting them in melee as well. The final piece to their defense is a trigger called the mists embrace. This trigger grants the crooligans the spirit characteristic until the end of the turn. This will reduce the wounds suffered from additional attacks by half (unless its magical) I think the one advantage the Necropunk’s defense has over the crooligans is that it is always active. The Crooligans need to cast the mist in order to be safe. Until they do they are vulnerable.
The winner of this category is the Crooligans. The need for the mist should just be an incentive to activate this model asap. Just hope to flip a high enough card or plan on cheating.



Mobility: The walks are the same but from this point the similarities between these two stop. Although they are both very mobile both move around the board in very different ways. The Necropunk’s have the potential to get leap which will allow them to basically fly 7 inches in any direction as a 0 action. This however requires both a 6 Masks or higher which is far from a certain thing. If you combine leap with a double walk and the models arachnid ability this model could potentially move up to 15” while ignoring most terrain penalties. The crooligans on the other hand have a more deceiving form of movement. If a crooligan has the mist active he will gain +2 to his walk giving him a walk of 6. In addition the crooligan can take a free walk action after it interacts with an objective. The problem lies in that no matter how you try and work it the A SINGLE crooligan could only ever travel a max distance of 8 inches (4+4 from a double walk). However the Crooligan’s movement becomes almost limitless if you have more than one on the board. By using the action “curiosity” calls the Crooligan can basically teleport itself to another Crooligan that is affected by the Mist. There is no range restriction to this ability. Furthermore their ability “from the shadows” will allow them to deploy closer to the objectives. This will help make up for their lack of ground pounding abilities. Over all I think the mobility category is a tie. The Necropunk can cover great distances by himself and in some instances still have the ability to interact with an objective. The crooligans require at least two to get their true mobility but their mobility via walking is limited. However when using Curiosity calls the distance they can tavel is unmatched. I guess what it really comes down to is what you need the mobility for.

Cost: Necropunks 3 : Crooligans 4. It doesn’t really seem like that big of a difference but there is a slight catch. Since you need two Necropunks for the over power trigger and two crooligans for the curiosity calls ability I’m am almost always going to be taking either of these models as a pair. If that’s the case then the difference between them is 2ss. Can I afford to spend the extra 2 ss for the crooligans and if I do what sacrifices am I going to make elsewhere in my list.

Verdict: Still undecided!!! I think the biggest thing that is keeping me from proclaiming Crooligans as the winner is the extra 2ss that I am going to have to find in my lists. Besides that I love their abilities and think that over all they have more options and more of an annoyance factor about them. I would love to hear your thoughts.

P.S. This is why I love Malifaux. It is rare that a choice is clear cut and simple.

[gnam]

I'll also throw in the added comment about Crooligans being a Special Forces model, so they limit what else you can hire.

If you bring Crooligans you can't summon a Rogue Necromancy unless Molly is also in the crew. Also, the Crooligans keep you from bringing Von Schills or the Carrion Effigy.

Overall I like the Crooligans, but like anything else they are situational to your build and the strategies/schemes you are dealing with. However, if I had to pick one, it would likely be the Necropunks as they are cheaper and don't limit what else you can take.

[rancor709]

I have both types of models as well as Night Terrors. When playing Nico I've been tending towards using necropunks simply because of the raising restricitons and the punk can still operate fairly well if only 1 is on the table. If your opponent kills 1 of your cooligans their ability is significantly nerfed. However the idea of advance deploying 2 3in obscuring templates early in the game is interesting as well as snagging objectives rapidly. I'll have to play around with the cooligans more to see if on the table they perform as well as the trusty rusty necropunk.

[Dustcrusher]

I'd want to take 3 if I use them, so I'd probably use them mostly with Molly. Without her, it'd depend on the situation as to whether or not 2 Crooligans are worth my Necropunk trio.

[fritz the cat]

I've been looking at the special events and special terrain alot of late to add more depth to my games, and I think their inclusion makes the crooligans a very tempting include. The number of extra things to (1) interact with that have both interesting and valuable effects make the crooligans seem like a superior choice. At the end of the day it really comes down to the strategies for me. If its something thats going to require (2) actions to pull off the necropunks seem way better, If its a large number of (1) interactions I think crooligans are a better choice.

[DeadFingers]

The necropunks are much faster, cheaper, more damaging, always leave corpses (crooligans will almost always have the spirit characteristic when they die), don't restrict your troops choices, and don't rely on molly for early game movement.

The crooligans are more endurant but once your opponent figures out how to get around the mist (attacks that ignore Los, some derivative of dispel magic, etc.) they get dead real fast. Endurance can be a big deal, but if that's what you're looking for in a 3-4ss model the night terror outshines both options.

As an objective model the crooligan's tricks usually don't help much, you'll never be interacting enough for always on the move to make a big difference and the extra wk from the mist is situational as you usually want to keep them in one area to give your crew cover, and providing cover would be the only reason I wouldn't totally write off the crooligans. The mist is a fantastic spell that can block Los to a huge chunk of your crew for a few turns while you move up the board, and that is something that can win you games with the melee-heavy resurrectionists.

If you're looking for an objective grabber/troop model the necropunks are the better option and night terrors are even better still. One or two crooligans to block Los can still be a viable choice, just make sure you know what to expect out of them.

[Q'iq'el]

If you bring Crooligans you can't summon a Rogue Necromancy unless Molly is also in the crew.

I believe this is wrong. You can hire up to 2 Special Forces models (if you skip Molly, which I'm not sure why would you do ;) ), and you can have only one Special Force in the crew, but that doesn't limit you from summoning more than 2 SF minions.

As long as you Summon (and not hire) the Rogue Necromancy, you're OK.

Also, the Crooligans keep you from bringing Von Schills or the Carrion Effigy.

That's true.


I had no practical experience with Crooligans yet, but I think it's safe to say Necropunks are slightly better fighters.

As to mobility, I think the OP greatly underestimated Crooligans. Teleportations are immensely powerful in Malifaux, especially if you play on terrain intensive table or Terraclips. Ability to zap back to the other Crooligan or to teleport back to the crew's Leader when attacked are simply crazy.

7" leap is not as good - in theory they move faster, in practice terrain and other models will get in the way and cut some distance from the movement (not to mention never getting the right cards when one really needs it).

At least on the tables I've been using recently (almost exclusively Terraclips), I think Crooligans will perform much better in their role.

[fritz the cat]

Hrm, on the point of terraclips terrain with crooligans... how does the Ht3 fog interact with multiple floors? does the floor stop it, or can it effect multiple levels?

[Mawdrigen]

well judging by the answers I got on my summoning questions I would say it forms an infinitely high (above and below) cylinder 3" out from the crooligan.

The ability doesn't mention "On this elevation"

[gnam]

I believe this is wrong. You can hire up to 2 Special Forces models (if you skip Molly, which I'm not sure why would you do ;) ), and you can have only one Special Force in the crew, but that doesn't limit you from summoning more than 2 SF minions.

This has been discussed in the rules forums, and to date there is not official ruling on whether or not you can summon additional special forces models.

The Rules Manual states "A crew may include up to two Faction or Mercenary Model with the special forces characteristic per leader in their Crew."

It says nothing about hiring (which is does refer to in other places), it says contains which could include summoning.

So ya, until this is resolved, I'd be very careful of building strategies around summoning a Third SF model into a crew without the henchman.