Malifaux rules as a continuing product

[Cadilon]

As I grow as a Malifaux player I am of course finding myself going beyond just knowing my own crew and wanting to research my opponent's stat cards. I am reminded of a recent post here where someone was dissatisfied with how quickly the rule books go out of date. He was disappointed that he had to check 3 books and the internet to be up to date. At first I discounted this as a silly complaint from someone who likely just wanted to avoid buying the rule books. But as I started going through the arduous task of this research of other crews, I realized perhaps there is a kernel of something here that could be addressed by Wyrd, to their profit.

I love the Rules Manual. Its just the right size and the writing tone is perfect for clearly describing rules. I think Wyrd should make this a periodical, perhaps annual, and add the up to date stat cards from the previous books. Players would still need the new book for the fluff and new models, ala Twisting Fates, but they'd also have the opportunity to get the up to date info from previous books. In one neat package there'd be both up to date rules and all previous stat cards. I suppose I'd pay $25-$30 a year for an updated book like this.

I don't pretend to know Wyrd's business model so I can only guess as to the income implications of this. I would guess part of their income is from rules, but the majority has to be from models. From the rules standpoint, I guess a new player coming in could pass on the previous books and just use the Rules Manual, so those sales would be lost. But I'd think that'd be more than made up for by existing players like myself buying an annual rules manual each year. The 'new' rules would still be a full fluff book that wouldn't be incorporated into the rules manual until the following year. As to how it might impact model sales, I suppose a person could buy this $30 manual and have access to all the stats and then proxy the models. I doubt that will amount to much. And besides, the .v2 pdfs already do this. And if you've listened there have also been rumors of stat card packs for updates, just like Warmachine. This would be the same thing.

In sum, this is how I'd like to purchase my Malifaux rules: One new fluff book every year or two, and an annual rules manual/compilation including official updated rules interpretations and stat cards.

Just my two cents.

[CannonFodder]

+1

I'd settle for a quarterly FAQ, searching for things everywhere is little frustrating. Though I don't think there will be single book with all model stats, At least not until a MK2 is needed, which I hope is not soon.

Being able to point to a single rules source is important.

:deal:

[edonil]

Huh. I guess coming from other game systems gives a different perspective. Compared to 40k, or even Mk II Warmachine, the number of books needed to play is tame. Ultimately, you only need the Rules Manual. If you want the fluff, well that's more books yes, but the Manual has all the current rules in it.

[Fog]

Huh. I guess coming from other game systems gives a different perspective. Compared to 40k, or even Mk II Warmachine, the number of books needed to play is tame. Ultimately, you only need the Rules Manual. If you want the fluff, well that's more books yes, but the Manual has all the current rules in it.

Coming from a gaming background, the rules manual is a godsend. The only complaint I have is the lack of a solid FAQ about some of the interactions. Sure you have the rules forums but browsing a forum trying to find a specific answer is a lot more difficult in tournament play than producing a copy of the FAQ and pointing out how a specific, tricky interaction works.

[Cadilon]

As a new player, let me explain:

The rulebook is excellent as it is a portable and inexpensive source, HOWEVER, it does not address crew building, nor lore, and for those reasons you must buy 2 separate extra (and out of date) books.

I understand people jumping to the defense of Wyrd, I mean these guys seem great (esp when compared to the tyrant GW), but please understand that this is frustrating for new players. When I bring this up I get blasted by people who don't even read my whole post, nor take the time to try and see where I am coming from.

I am happy to pay for my hobby, I just prefer to buy up to date information, and not confuse myself with many sources saying different things.

I can understand your point and where you are coming from. However, I just want to make clear that what you are asking for is different from what I've suggested.

I've suggested an updated annual Rules Manual that is just like what we currently have, with the addition of stat cards for reference purposes. I still think if you want fluff and lore you should buy the original books.

[edonil]

Well...I still don't understand your complaint. The rules manual is just that, the rules. Now, if it was advertised as this is the most current set...agreed. And a combined FAQ would be nice, rather than hunting through the rules forum. But there's no way you're going to get a rulebook for under $35 that would have fluff, crew lists and so on. Doesn't matter what company you're looking at. I guess if you're asking for a combined book of just the fluff from all the sources, or of the armies, or whatever, maybe I see where you're coming from...but Wyrd is doing a massively better job than their competitors. To play 40k, you need to spend $50 on the rulebook (or $90 on their fairly useless starter in overall army terms) plus an ever-increasing in price Codex (currently $30) to even start playing the game. For Warmachine, you need to get the main rulebook ($35) which has some army rules, but to get the army rules for everyone you need to spend $35 per faction (current count is 11). Wyrd is doing a better job, trust me.

[CannibalBob]

The rules manual does address the rules for building a crew. Everything you need to play a game is located in that book. The only thing it does not have are the model rules.

What I would like to see them do is periodically, lets say annually, put out a deck of cards for each faction that contains the up to-date cards for that whole faction and a few extra duplicates for models that see a lot of use such as Belles, Gremlins, etc.

Put out that box, charge $10-15 for it and clearly label the package with the current date - that way we can tell when they have sat on a shelf in a store and a newer version has come out.

My only gripe with Wyrd is that a number of model rules have changed from what they were on the card (for the better it seems), but replacing those cards is currently a pain. In addition, the store I buy from has a lot of old stock and when you buy a model you are not always guaranteed to be getting current cards.

[Buhallin]

While I can understand the frustrations as a new player, new players turn into old players, and here's what old players would say if Wyrd did this:

"You're turning out a new book every year that I have to buy to keep updated, even though there's not really anything new in it! You're just out to vacuum up my money!"

You can actually see this if you go back to some of the forum discussions of the RM. It's a spectacularly useful book, and very cheap as such things go, but there were still some people who were very upset at the release.

The sad truth about minis games is that this is something that the industry hasn't quite resolved well, and probably won't for a while. As long as they update their rules, getting those updates out is going to be an issue. Plenty of other systems handle this by just not updating their rules often (or at all). Wyrd's fast-fix approach can certainly add a few challenges to keeping up with it (not just for new players), but I much prefer the game that results from that.

[bucket_boy101]

Just by looking at the Arcanist v2 PDF, there are only 2 things in the original rulebook for Arcanists that have not been re-done into V2: the Wendigo and the Electrical Creation. For Neverborn only primordial magic and poltergeist aren't in v2. For guild there's about 4, the Austringer, Guard and two totems. I imagine it's similar with the Ressers and outcasts. My point is that you only need the main rules, the V2 PDF's and Rising powers, as well as the rules manual. Any models that you use you will either have valid cards, or v2 pdfs that you can print yourself.

[CannibalBob]

Just by looking at the Arcanist v2 PDF, there are only 2 things in the original rulebook for Arcanists that have not been re-done into V2: the Wendigo and the Electrical Creation. For Neverborn only primordial magic and poltergeist aren't in v2. For guild there's about 4, the Austringer, Guard and two totems. I imagine it's similar with the Ressers and outcasts. My point is that you only need the main rules, the V2 PDF's and Rising powers, as well as the rules manual. Any models that you use you will either have valid cards, or v2 pdfs that you can print yourself.

I appreciate that they have made the pdf for the statcards available. That is great. However, I really do wish they would just issue an anthology deck of current cards for the different factions.

It is a pain to mail order cards, unless you piggy-back them on another order since you pay for shipping. But the other issue is that many players don't bother with going online and searching for updated rules and often have no idea if the rules for their models are current. If a set of updated cards was available in a store then many of these people would get the updated cards. I don't like needing to worry about if my opponent has the current errata of rules, and if not then either I get to play against old rules or I need to carry printed PDFs for their factions with me.

Online updates are fine for FAQs and clarifications, but not for large model changes. For that they really ought to issue an updated set of cards for sale.