Malifaux rules as a continuing product

[Cadilon]

As I grow as a Malifaux player I am of course finding myself going beyond just knowing my own crew and wanting to research my opponent's stat cards. I am reminded of a recent post here where someone was dissatisfied with how quickly the rule books go out of date. He was disappointed that he had to check 3 books and the internet to be up to date. At first I discounted this as a silly complaint from someone who likely just wanted to avoid buying the rule books. But as I started going through the arduous task of this research of other crews, I realized perhaps there is a kernel of something here that could be addressed by Wyrd, to their profit.

I love the Rules Manual. Its just the right size and the writing tone is perfect for clearly describing rules. I think Wyrd should make this a periodical, perhaps annual, and add the up to date stat cards from the previous books. Players would still need the new book for the fluff and new models, ala Twisting Fates, but they'd also have the opportunity to get the up to date info from previous books. In one neat package there'd be both up to date rules and all previous stat cards. I suppose I'd pay $25-$30 a year for an updated book like this.

I don't pretend to know Wyrd's business model so I can only guess as to the income implications of this. I would guess part of their income is from rules, but the majority has to be from models. From the rules standpoint, I guess a new player coming in could pass on the previous books and just use the Rules Manual, so those sales would be lost. But I'd think that'd be more than made up for by existing players like myself buying an annual rules manual each year. The 'new' rules would still be a full fluff book that wouldn't be incorporated into the rules manual until the following year. As to how it might impact model sales, I suppose a person could buy this $30 manual and have access to all the stats and then proxy the models. I doubt that will amount to much. And besides, the .v2 pdfs already do this. And if you've listened there have also been rumors of stat card packs for updates, just like Warmachine. This would be the same thing.

In sum, this is how I'd like to purchase my Malifaux rules: One new fluff book every year or two, and an annual rules manual/compilation including official updated rules interpretations and stat cards.

Just my two cents.

[edonil]

Huh. I guess coming from other game systems gives a different perspective. Compared to 40k, or even Mk II Warmachine, the number of books needed to play is tame. Ultimately, you only need the Rules Manual. If you want the fluff, well that's more books yes, but the Manual has all the current rules in it.

[Fog]

Huh. I guess coming from other game systems gives a different perspective. Compared to 40k, or even Mk II Warmachine, the number of books needed to play is tame. Ultimately, you only need the Rules Manual. If you want the fluff, well that's more books yes, but the Manual has all the current rules in it.

Coming from a gaming background, the rules manual is a godsend. The only complaint I have is the lack of a solid FAQ about some of the interactions. Sure you have the rules forums but browsing a forum trying to find a specific answer is a lot more difficult in tournament play than producing a copy of the FAQ and pointing out how a specific, tricky interaction works.

[Cadilon]

As a new player, let me explain:

The rulebook is excellent as it is a portable and inexpensive source, HOWEVER, it does not address crew building, nor lore, and for those reasons you must buy 2 separate extra (and out of date) books.

I understand people jumping to the defense of Wyrd, I mean these guys seem great (esp when compared to the tyrant GW), but please understand that this is frustrating for new players. When I bring this up I get blasted by people who don't even read my whole post, nor take the time to try and see where I am coming from.

I am happy to pay for my hobby, I just prefer to buy up to date information, and not confuse myself with many sources saying different things.

I can understand your point and where you are coming from. However, I just want to make clear that what you are asking for is different from what I've suggested.

I've suggested an updated annual Rules Manual that is just like what we currently have, with the addition of stat cards for reference purposes. I still think if you want fluff and lore you should buy the original books.

[Buhallin]

While I can understand the frustrations as a new player, new players turn into old players, and here's what old players would say if Wyrd did this:

"You're turning out a new book every year that I have to buy to keep updated, even though there's not really anything new in it! You're just out to vacuum up my money!"

You can actually see this if you go back to some of the forum discussions of the RM. It's a spectacularly useful book, and very cheap as such things go, but there were still some people who were very upset at the release.

The sad truth about minis games is that this is something that the industry hasn't quite resolved well, and probably won't for a while. As long as they update their rules, getting those updates out is going to be an issue. Plenty of other systems handle this by just not updating their rules often (or at all). Wyrd's fast-fix approach can certainly add a few challenges to keeping up with it (not just for new players), but I much prefer the game that results from that.

[Justin]

While I can understand the frustrations as a new player, new players turn into old players, and here's what old players would say if Wyrd did this:

"You're turning out a new book every year that I have to buy to keep updated, even though there's not really anything new in it! You're just out to vacuum up my money!"

You can actually see this if you go back to some of the forum discussions of the RM. It's a spectacularly useful book, and very cheap as such things go, but there were still some people who were very upset at the release.

The sad truth about minis games is that this is something that the industry hasn't quite resolved well, and probably won't for a while. As long as they update their rules, getting those updates out is going to be an issue. Plenty of other systems handle this by just not updating their rules often (or at all). Wyrd's fast-fix approach can certainly add a few challenges to keeping up with it (not just for new players), but I much prefer the game that results from that.

One thing to say on this:

While old player are louder. New players are more important to the health of the game.

[osoi]

One thing to say on this:

While old player are louder. New players are more important to the health of the game.

Have to agree 100% to this having just had one new player come in locally has made a big difference plus theres others following suit, having the game accessible to new players is vital to sustain and grow the game we all love.

If we as more experienced players are able to quickly point new players to the v2 stat cards to help them out making future purchases and great resources like 'Pull My Finger' I think that is beneficial.

I have my 2 books plus the rules manual and not one of them is worthless to me and really if you buy all the books you are still looking at less cost than just buying the Warhammer Fantasy book and your relevant Army Book or even 40k. Even with Warmachine/Hordes you are buying a lot more books to get all the rules for all the models, yes Malifaux is newer but its not that big an outlay.

As far as how to define the books I say Book 1 is the first book (duh) that has all the initial model releases plus the basic rules but some of these rules have been tightened up, if you want the book get it for the pretty pictures and stories plus to give you an overview of each faction and their models. I then say Rising Powers expands on this with more models for each faction and develops the story further. I say if you want to be able to play the game with all the rules options just buy the rules manual as it has everything you will need with all the expanded rules strategies and schemes. I also point people to the v2 cards hosted here and the Pull My Finger wiki if they want info on other crews.

[Math Mathonwy]

The sad truth about minis games is that this is something that the industry hasn't quite resolved well, and probably won't for a while. As long as they update their rules, getting those updates out is going to be an issue. Plenty of other systems handle this by just not updating their rules often (or at all). Wyrd's fast-fix approach can certainly add a few challenges to keeping up with it (not just for new players), but I much prefer the game that results from that.

Alkemy has an online living rulebook. A PDF that is updated when clarifications, errata or new rules are needed which is a pretty neat solution. Or at least that's how it works in theory as Kraken went belly-up and the new owner of Alkemy (Studio 38) is still busy releasing minis for the existing units so they haven't touched the rulebook yet.

[Buhallin]

Alkemy has an online living rulebook. A PDF that is updated when clarifications, errata or new rules are needed which is a pretty neat solution. Or at least that's how it works in theory as Kraken went belly-up and the new owner of Alkemy (Studio 38) is still busy releasing minis for the existing units so they haven't touched the rulebook yet.

Which pretty much just reinforces my point.

We, as gamers, would love to have companies provide updated rules to our doorstep (or at least online) the instant they change anything. Unfortunately, the reality is that they're business organizations with limited manpower, and that doesn't always play out the way we might want.

The alternative is to simply have all printings of a book obsolete? Not sure that is a better option.

It's a stretch to call the books "obsolete". I would agree that the initial book probably is, but one rule change on one model - or even a few rule changes over a few models - does not make the books obsolete.

But even then, in the original context... Maybe? I do software interface design for a living, and if there's one thing I've discovered over the years, "consistent" trumps "good" far more often than any of us might wish.

While old player are louder. New players are more important to the health of the game.

Not sure I agree with this statement, at least as an absolute. Yes, the game needs new blood coming in - but that is far more likely to come from an experienced player sharing the game than it is some random pickup. And if a game reaches a point where it loses the old players faster than it's bringing in the new... It's doomed.

[CannibalBob]

The rules manual does address the rules for building a crew. Everything you need to play a game is located in that book. The only thing it does not have are the model rules.

What I would like to see them do is periodically, lets say annually, put out a deck of cards for each faction that contains the up to-date cards for that whole faction and a few extra duplicates for models that see a lot of use such as Belles, Gremlins, etc.

Put out that box, charge $10-15 for it and clearly label the package with the current date - that way we can tell when they have sat on a shelf in a store and a newer version has come out.

My only gripe with Wyrd is that a number of model rules have changed from what they were on the card (for the better it seems), but replacing those cards is currently a pain. In addition, the store I buy from has a lot of old stock and when you buy a model you are not always guaranteed to be getting current cards.