Battlefront cuts down Maelstrom... (from Dakka)

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Hi all,

Since I noticed quite a few FoW players on this forum, have any of you encountered this?

From TGN:

Maelstrom Games no longer to sell Battlefront
Battlefront have announced that UK retailer Maelstrom Games is no longer selling their products.

From their announcement:

Battlefront Miniatures Ltd of Auckland, New Zealand announces that Maelstrom Games of Mansfield, United Kingdom is no longer a retailer of its products. This applies to all brands and ranges sold by Battlefront Miniatures Ltd.

With immediate effect Maelstrom Games will no longer be one of our retailers.

Any customer who has advance orders for product yet to come out should contact Maelstrom to confirm their ability to supply or contact us directly and we will put you in touch with an alternative supplier.Maelstrom Games no longer to sell Battlefront
Battlefront have announced that UK retailer Maelstrom Games is no longer selling their products.

Now, on Dakka, the Maelstrom Managing Director commented officially on page 7:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum...st/349098.page

Please use this forum to vent/discuss but not attack.

It is my belief that there is 2 sides (sometimes a 3rd 'weird' side) to every story, and Battefront has been keeping mum on this, so only speculation about business strategy can be offered.

I only hope that Wyrd does not go down this path, as online retailers are sometimes the only avenue for those in more remote parts of the world (Ie. Myself... 3 hour plane trip to the nearest Malifaux-stockist Bricks and Mortar)... which is why I buy from:

www.phoenixforge.com.au

[Elazar]

Maelstrom published bits of the emails back and forth on this. It's a sad one really. I don't know what the laws are like for Battlefront in New Zealand but in the UK what they're trying to force on Maelstrom sounds suspiciously like price-fixing which is illegal in the UK where Maelstrom are based. The fact that Battlefront resorted to holding onto a very large order of stock which contained the product of Maelstrom's customers' orders to prove a point I found very disheartening to read (this was in an email from Battlefront). I think it's a real shame for the game as Maelstrom are a big retailer and less choice for where to buy only hurts the consumer. But, if it's gone down how it's written then Battlefront will have a few questions to answer about their business practices when trading with UK companies and what they try to enforce on them...

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Maelstrom published bits of the emails back and forth on this. It's a sad one really. I don't know what the laws are like for Battlefront in New Zealand but in the UK what they're trying to force on Maelstrom sounds suspiciously like price-fixing which is illegal in the UK where Maelstrom are based. The fact that Battlefront resorted to holding onto a very large order of stock which contained the product of Maelstrom's customers' orders to prove a point I found very disheartening to read (this was in an email from Battlefront). I think it's a real shame for the game as Maelstrom are a big retailer and less choice for where to buy only hurts the consumer. But, if it's gone down how it's written then Battlefront will have a few questions to answer about their business practices when trading with UK companies and what they try to enforce on them...

I would certainly be interested in links ot the emails in question.

The secondary concern is why Battlefront feel that they can do this without hurting themselves. Afterall, they do not hold the monopoly on WW2 15mm figures/tanks/artillery. There are at least 3 other suppliers whom spring to mind who not only do this at a lower price and, sometimes, higher quality.

I can only see this as being a double-negative for them. Ie. Lost customer reach/exposure (supply chain) and customer confidence.

It is not as though they have the size of GW, which I believe they may be deluding themselves into believing.

[James.]

Most of the stuff can be found here matey: http://www.maelstromgames.co.uk/down...Miniatures.pdf

James.

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Thanks James...

[James.]

That possibly was linked in the Dakka thread somewhere (apologies if it was, it was late/early when I posted my reply and just wanted the link there for people to read if interested).

As someone who has used Maelstrom Games for a while, and also someone who has just stopped playing FoW, I'm pretty biased about the side I would take. It seems like price fixing, which is illegal over here, and to be fair as you've mentioned, it also seems like they borrowed GW legal team for a day...

As far as myself and my local friends are concerned, when we talk about buying sutff online there are two names that come to the front of the conversation: Wayland and Maelstrom. Basically the big two of online wargaming in the uk. For Battlefront to take a fit with one of them seems silly at the least.

There is a website that sell BF stuff for even less than Maelstrom were (I don't mean Wayland either), and I'm talking way less, who seem to have been untouched. The website I'm talking about doesn't sell any small ammount either, we're talking the full range, so they obviously have some kind of contract with BF, and yet they've remained untouched by all of this (they also DON NOT HAVE bricks and mortar store :| ).

It could be the old philosophy of picking one of the biggest guys in the playground then beating the living hell out of him in front of everyone to show you mean business, but whatever it is, BF seem to be acting like tossers over it, and are sure to lose business.

Maelstrom are already sourcing new 15mm products, which can't be good for BF. If they find cheaper alternatives, a lot of people will use them, from accross a table you can't even see 15mm guys anyway.

So I think they've made a big mistake, and I also think they should be very careful going down this route, already people are knocking their name down to BF and calling them out over this, there's only one company big enough to soak damage from that kind of pr, and battlefront are not that company.

James.

[Manicmac]

I owned a game store And I did business with Battlefront.
It is not price fixing. If you want to be a retailer of Battlefront products you must first send in a picture of your brick and mortar store. One with the address number visible if possible. Then you have to agree you will not offer their products at more than 10 % off.
Maelstrom Games offered larger discounts, with vouchers, and that is not allowed. Battlefront asked them to abide by the contract they agreed to and they would not. End of story.

[James.]

From the UK governments website:

Price fixing

If you supply goods for resale, for example to a wholesaler, distributor or shop, it will also generally be illegal for you to agree a minimum price at which those goods may be resold.
The law doesn't just cover formal agreements. It can also apply to other activities such as gentleman's agreements and even informal discussions where confidential commercially sensitive information is exchanged. For example, you shouldn't discuss your pricing plans with your competitors.

That kind of looks like what happened here. I appreciate that people may have dealt with battlefront before, and I'm not sure what the laws are in other countries, but Maelstrom trade in the uk. So surely Battlefront telling them they can't sell products with more than 10% discount is fixing a minimum price, thus price fixing?

James.

[AvatarForm]

That possibly was linked in the Dakka thread somewhere (apologies if it was, it was late/early when I posted my reply and just wanted the link there for people to read if interested).

As someone who has used Maelstrom Games for a while, and also someone who has just stopped playing FoW, I'm pretty biased about the side I would take. It seems like price fixing, which is illegal over here, and to be fair as you've mentioned, it also seems like they borrowed GW legal team for a day...

As far as myself and my local friends are concerned, when we talk about buying sutff online there are two names that come to the front of the conversation: Wayland and Maelstrom. Basically the big two of online wargaming in the uk. For Battlefront to take a fit with one of them seems silly at the least.

There is a website that sell BF stuff for even less than Maelstrom were (I don't mean Wayland either), and I'm talking way less, who seem to have been untouched. The website I'm talking about doesn't sell any small ammount either, we're talking the full range, so they obviously have some kind of contract with BF, and yet they've remained untouched by all of this (they also DON NOT HAVE bricks and mortar store :| ).

It could be the old philosophy of picking one of the biggest guys in the playground then beating the living hell out of him in front of everyone to show you mean business, but whatever it is, BF seem to be acting like tossers over it, and are sure to lose business.

Maelstrom are already sourcing new 15mm products, which can't be good for BF. If they find cheaper alternatives, a lot of people will use them, from accross a table you can't even see 15mm guys anyway.

So I think they've made a big mistake, and I also think they should be very careful going down this route, already people are knocking their name down to BF and calling them out over this, there's only one company big enough to soak damage from that kind of pr, and battlefront are not that company.

James.

RE: 15mm Alternatives
Forged in Battle - they do cheaper and better sculpts than Seeds of War (BF)

I owned a game store And I did business with Battlefront.
It is not price fixing. If you want to be a retailer of Battlefront products you must first send in a picture of your brick and mortar store. One with the address number visible if possible. Then you have to agree you will not offer their products at more than 10 % off.
Maelstrom Games offered larger discounts, with vouchers, and that is not allowed. Battlefront asked them to abide by the contract they agreed to and they would not. End of story.

Actually, Maelstrom's contract does not include any phrasing as such. It's stated in the link James provided.

Also, at the end of the day, Battlefront sells for 40% off to distributers... it does not matter what they on-sell for, Battlefront only see the initial purchase funds. They do not share in the profits from Maelstrom/Wayland's markups.

Why all the fuss?

If you are of the belief that its "saving LFGS", then please read the final paragraph of Maelstrom's MD in the link.

Times change, adapt or fail.

But seriously, BF need to take a look at themselves because their present business practice may see them slitting their own throats...

I would certainly give up GW products if GW decided to do the same to Wayland or Maelstrom.

[James.]

Forged do some great sculpts! A friend bought quite a few things from them and I was very impressed, especially as they were cheaper than my bf stuff!

Skytrex do some nice lines too, from their command decision range I think it was called. Not much (if any) saving there though.

I know a few players locally who have considered boycotting BF stuff in favour of other companies in response to the Maelstrom problem.

Battlefront up to that point had always seemed like a decent company, but pulling tricks like this just loses customer respect, and as we all previously stated, they just aren't big enough to go down that route.


James.