Zoriada and Alps

[magicpockets]

Okay, so we tried out Alps last night to see how "over powered they were" and yes, they're strong but they have a hell of a lot of weaknesses. A few Q's came up though which I'm not sure have been answered -

1. When obeying an enemy model, does it count as an activation? My gut feeling is no, but the consensus is you can use a "once per activation" ability during obey so which way does it go? This is important when obeying a model surrounded by Alps :D

2. If a model has poison and activates near Alps - which happens first? This came up last night on a model with 2 wounds left - if the poison killed it I wouldn't get an Alp, if it failed it's WP test and took wounds I'd get an Alp. As both happen on activation, is there a way to determine which goes first or do they all happen at once - i.e. it's killed by poison and the Alps?

Thanks everyone for any ideas you can share. MP

[karn987]

1) Nope, it is not an activation. They are just performing the action you have them use. But yes, you may use the "once per activation" abilities even if they have been used because your not activating.

2)Hmmm not sure. I think effects on you happen first (ie poison), then effects the enemy applies would. But I don't know... good question.

[Wodschow]

From the errata:

Add to the end of the section before Timing Example:
“To resolve more than one effect occurring at the same time
players should resolve in the following order: acting player,
then follow activation order (p.43). Any effects that are not
controlled by either player, such as any terrain or
environmental or encounter effects, are resolved last.
Players always resolve their models’ effects in an order of
their choosing.”

Not sure how to categorize the different effects though.

Is poison controlled? No..?
The Alps' Smother is an effect, but is it controlled or not? My guess is that it isn't - you are forced to perform the duel after all.

Is the Alps talent an effect on the Alps or on the models close to them?

My guess is that both poison and the Alps talent are effects on the activating model, thus their owner decide the order in which they happen.

[AvatarForm]

From the errata:

Add to the end of the section before Timing Example:
“To resolve more than one effect occurring at the same time
players should resolve in the following order: acting player,
then follow activation order (p.43). Any effects that are not
controlled by either player, such as any terrain or
environmental or encounter effects, are resolved last.
Players always resolve their models’ effects in an order of
their choosing.”

Not sure how to categorize the different effects though.

Is poison controlled? No..?
The Alps' Smother is an effect, but is it controlled or not? My guess is that it isn't - you are forced to perform the duel after all.

Is the Alps talent an effect on the Alps or on the models close to them?

My guess is that both poison and the Alps talent are effects on the activating model, thus their owner decide the order in which they happen.

+1, this is the Rule of Equivalency IIRC, explained in detail by some marchals recently. The exampl used was Papa Loco being killed with explosive rounds and the order in which the explosions were triggered.

[Wodschow]

This has nothing to do with the rule of equivalency.. Eh?

[karn987]

@AvatarForm: This is not Rule of Equiv related, it's timing related to when effects happen and in what order.

Where is Bugking when we need his Time Mastery.

[poulpox]

“To resolve more than one effect occurring at the same time
players should resolve in the following order: acting player,
then follow activation order (p.43)

I am not sure the 2 events are occuring at the same time as per errata poinson wounds are taken at the beginning of the activation where as the model has to take the WP test against the Alp when activating... It's not all that clear but one could read that poison is happening first.
However if they were to happen at the same time I would still consider the poison to be worked out first following the errata rule: the poison wounds only involve the acting model and would happen whether it's alone or not, then I would consider the effect caused by surrounding models.
Not sure I wrote it clearly though...?

[Wodschow]

@poulpox: I think you're right that there's a distinction between 'when activating' and 'the beginning of the activation', but to be honest I have -no- idea which of the two occurs first xDD

[karn987]

Ahhh good catch poulpox, that would make it different. Just how there is things that happen at the beginning of the Closing Phase and things that happen during the Closing Phase. I know there is a difference between my example and what we have here.

So if that's the case then, Poison would happen first I think, then the Alps Smother ability. Since Poison happens at the beginning of the activation and the Alps just states "activating", I think Poison would kick of first since it clearly states beginning of activation (which in my mind would come before "activating" timing).

[ProdigalPunk]

I would assume that the Poison happens first, as I sort of think it happens before anything, however if it happens at the same time then the acting models player would get to pick the activation.