Is the Ice Golem as terrible as I think?

[Pavic]

So, I played a game last night using the Cult of December, and I have to say, I was terribly disappointed with the Ice Golem. I knew that his slow speed would be a considerable reliability, but his defense of 2 made him almost useless. Even his Armor 2 did not make up for his lack of speed or defense.
I tried to use terrain to limit some of the ranged damage he suffered, but this tactic was even somewhat foiled by his Ht 3. Also, since Statue is a (1) cost action, I simply could not use it or he would never have made it in to combat, where he quickly died due to the considerable damage he had suffered on the way in.

Every other model of similar SS cost seems superior to the Ice Golem, and I have to say, there are a number of models that cost a few SS less that I think are far more effective. Is there anyone else out there that finds the Ice Golem lacking?

[knightdrake]

http://www.wyrd-games.net/showthread.php?t=7664

Stacked Armor from December's Touch can be helpful in lasting long in addition to using hard cover. I use him much and it takes it lumps but can get the damage in. I like using a totem to help Rasputina to assist in the castings.

[DangerousBeans]

As cool as he is, I think he'd be far more useful in a larger game. Tina needs a bodyguard and this guy can take a lot of punishment. In a smaller game however, I'm beginning to think he loses some of his usefulness. He is hideously slow, especially when you need to get statue going, against a melee army he could be worth it. Just keep your dudes close so if the enemy engages something the Golem can get in there. Against a ranged army, this doesn't help much though. His ranged attack is pretty decent with a gamin running "bite of winter" nearby.

For smaller games when you can't afford to have 9ss lumbering about, try using a cerberus. With "December's Touch" and a Gamin nearby, these guys can dish out some serious hurt, and they're amazingly fast if you've got the cards for "leap".

[nerdelemental]

At the game sized levels most of us are still playing many of the models we have available to us aren't the best choices, possibly. Consider one year from now when we have the entire book available to us. Everything will take on a completly different review. Totems alone will change the gameplay.

Currently, at SS games of 30 and below, I'd barely consider the inclusion of a 9+ SS model with a few exceptions. At 45, though, try the Steamborg and Ice Golem again. Arcanists shine at the lowest SS end and the Highest. Guild shine right in the middle at 7 and 8. That sort of thing.

The ice golem loses power when it's much easier to run around him and ignore him. Add three or four models on your side and it's harder to ignore the big statue because you can control the board even better.

[Kealios]

Yea, it bugs me that 'Tina can get more damage out of Beasts than Marcus can. Blah :P

[Fool]

Marcus can heal the beasts, and howl is great.

[Kealios]

See my Marcus Tactica about how difficult Primal Flame is able to be pulled off, how silly it is to have a melee Master sitting back casting difficult support spells, and why Howl may be good but cannot be easily combined with other spells/abilities that rely on Wp to do much good. Sure, he has some neat abilities, but in this game, +damage is one of the most valuable assets.

[Pavic]

Well, it sounds like I am not alone then. I have to say that using Rasputina to increase the Golem's armor would be helpful, but I don't like the idea that to make a model useable, one has to rely on additional effects from other models. Bonuses provided by other models should simply be icing, not something that is necessary to make a model effective. I guess I need to pick up some beasts or December Acolytes to fill in the for Golem for now. Now if we can just get a restock of the box sets!

[nerdelemental]

It's all very relative to your point of view, too.

I've got a bazillion proxied games under my belt and I have no incredible respect for the Dec Acolytes but the Ice Golems scare the poopies out of me.

How your opponent uses them, how much you focus on them, size of the game... it just changes the discussion.

[maverickman5]

It's all very relative to your point of view, too.

I've got a bazillion proxied games under my belt and I have no incredible respect for the Dec Acolytes but the Ice Golems scare the poopies out of me.

How your opponent uses them, how much you focus on them, size of the game... it just changes the discussion.


blah blah blah... you cheat and still win

[AoM]

The Ice Golem is the best "turret" in the game. get him where you need to defend, and sit him still. you're going to have a hard time cracking that armor, and he's got to take his 1 shot against you. You want to come in and hit him up close? Well, you'd better not kill him, because Shatter is cool.

Yes, he's slow. Yes, he's easy to hit. But rest assured, he doesn't suck anywhere near as much as you guys are worried about. Like Nerd said, he's a bit harder to get a lot from in smaller games, but with only 2 or 3 more models on the table, he's suddenly able to get where he needs to be with less abuse, and then he just sets up camp and kicks ass.

The Gamin suck just as much. You just don't notice it because you've got more of them on the table. ;)

[paperbag4]

I've found mine to be a house. Good ranged attack, cool triggers, high armor. I've only been playing multiplayer games, though, so people having all kinds of room to run around him hasn't been a problem for me. He makes a good bodyguard, as his ranged attack is powerful enough to matter and he's the same speed as Rasputina.

[Pavic]

Well, I think I might be giving him another shot, but I have to say, I found the Razorspine Rattler to be a much more effective model in my most recent game and 2 SS less to boot.

[Kealios]

How did you use the Rattler? I have found that I dont get much mileage out of him, even with his supposed long threat range.

[nerdelemental]

Between the last three posts, I think you guys are discovering EXACTLY what we all need to learn and keep in mind.

Everyone will find a piece that works better or worse for them.

We get PaperBag say it's a house with good this or that and then we get Pavic who's more drawn to the rattler to Kelios that doesn't get good mileage out of the rattler. I really came to understand this when my gaming buddy threw that stupid Ice Golem at me and I could NEVER get around him and it drove me crazy. Then I ran him and I'm feeling crippled on my side of the board wondering if I'd ever get anywhere and wishing and wishing I had a rattler instead.

That's the problem with the tactica threads coming out so early. There's just not enough experience to put everything in perspective but there's a lot of bubbling energy that wants each of us to play and communicate our findings.

So, I'm in the boat that I find the Ice Golem extremely powerful when I have to play against it, not very powerful when I'm using it. I just can't shift his gears at the right moment to make him truly versatile. The snake and cerebrus, though, just click with me and I know when and where to move them to maximize their potential and when they fall I'm usually pretty ready for them to.

[Pavic]

How did you use the Rattler? I have found that I dont get much mileage out of him, even with his supposed long threat range.

I basically kept him in cover of ice pillars until I was absolutely sure that I could do some serious damage with him. Having the ability to charge for a single action point is simply incredible, and this allowed him to get around the ice pillars with a walk and then charge in. Once he was in combat, he did great and I never looked back.

On a side note, I have decided to give the Golem another shot in my next game and I have already decided on a new strategy for using him, which essentially requires that I completely change the way I have approached the game thus far. I will definitely being lacking maneuverability and I will have to keep my models fairly close together, but I think this new approach will work. I have also come to accept the fact that Rasputina is one of the masters that requires a lot more finesse and has a higher learning curve, but with additional practice, I think I can turn the Golem into a huge threat with her assistance. At least I hope so :D

[capcap]

Ice golem can rock but he needs to get set up for the kill. If you put down the ice pillars between your oppenent and him every turn he will get across the board. Try him with Joss as you will have two heavy hitters.

[Sushicaddy]

Between the last three posts, I think you guys are discovering EXACTLY what we all need to learn and keep in mind.

Everyone will find a piece that works better or worse for them.

We get PaperBag say it's a house with good this or that and then we get Pavic who's more drawn to the rattler to Kelios that doesn't get good mileage out of the rattler. I really came to understand this when my gaming buddy threw that stupid Ice Golem at me and I could NEVER get around him and it drove me crazy. Then I ran him and I'm feeling crippled on my side of the board wondering if I'd ever get anywhere and wishing and wishing I had a rattler instead.

That's the problem with the tactica threads coming out so early. There's just not enough experience to put everything in perspective but there's a lot of bubbling energy that wants each of us to play and communicate our findings.

So, I'm in the boat that I find the Ice Golem extremely powerful when I have to play against it, not very powerful when I'm using it. I just can't shift his gears at the right moment to make him truly versatile. The snake and cerebrus, though, just click with me and I know when and where to move them to maximize their potential and when they fall I'm usually pretty ready for them to.

Which is the hallmark of great game design. In many other TT games, when you take the right (read: power)list, you win. That does not seem to be the case so much with Mx.

My boxes cannot come fast enough. Maybe i can will them here faster with my mind *uses mind powerz*. I have the Rasputina box set in there, but after I get a few games in with her and the ice constructs I plan to try her out with some beasties. I don't know what I will like more ATM, but I'm sure looking forward to it!

[momethesis]

I like to use him to finish off my opponents half dead models. He seems to work great after I have used lesser (cheaper) models to soften things up. I usually have him activate last so my opponent will have fewer activation to take advantage of his lower defense.

[Srdjan Stankovic]

Hi, I'm a new player, and I have a question (as most new players do). :)

Ice golem does not have book (tome) next to his DF characteristic, but he has his tome gray, not bold in his "DF (gray tome) Sub Zero" trigger?
Do I need tome card to trigger "Sub Zero" with him or not?

[IGman3977]

Good question on the defense trigger. I have had it myself, but i believe it is based from his CB having it. Not sure. I have looked through the book and have seen a few others like this. Hardly any have a suit nexxt to their Df.

[paperbag4]

The stat card is a mis-print. In order to trigger sub-zero your defense flip needs to be a Tome. I keep low Tomes in my hand just for doing that. Pulled it off on a Cerberus tonight, no extra attacks for you.

[DonB]

The stat card and the rule book are both misprints. Will it be in the list of errata soon then? So far I notice it isn't.

[WEiRD sKeTCH]

The Tome printed next to the Subzero Trigger is supposed to be solid black not grey.

[GrottoKnight]

No

His Ranged attack is where it is at.

Be aggressive at first 2xwalking then move and statue. Next turn Focus Ice burst at anything. The ability to throw down double muchroom clouds is nasty for a regular model.

I only play Raspy currently. I use him as a more forward option to take the brunt of the enemy and protect Joss, Gunslinger, Cerebrus, and other melee/range easier to kill models. He then can be ice mirrored through and can deal nasty damage when in melee, but most won't engage. I prefer him over two Ice gamin and a SS unless I am building and going to be below 6ss for Raspy.

but.....
I take Joss first then the Ice Golem and I may even put the Steamborg in front too.

Raspy
Joss
1 Golem and Steamborg 28ss

I think it is very lame that they made these guys Rare 1 (how bout 2)

[Wombats]

I really like the Ice Golem as a conduit for Raspy's spells.

She can hide behind scenery that the Golem and see (and shoot her spells) over if there is a volley of fire coming back at her.

If you are shooting at a single target, getting the Golem's base within 6" of Raspy and the other side of his base in 6" of your target you have a nice long range and can zap something down to 1 Wound.

I fluffed my first two games with Raspy but now she's a force to be reckoned with.

Gamins don't really seem to be necessary with her Frozen Heart aura and her armour buff allowing other models to arc spells.

Pretty sure her spells are effected by Bite of Winter, too, so if the Golem activates first her spells are all at +1 damage.

[Raintar]

I use the golem and the Gamin together as almost like a team. Basically when you see a beatstick moving towards you, what you want to do is basically use the Gamin as bait and you want to move it into a position where the gamin is exposed and your Ice Golem is behind it. Move the gamin and either use Defensive Stance or Statue depending on the attacker and hold a medium/low tome in your hand. Beatsticks almost always have melee expert so freezing them with Sub-zero will be key and you shouldn't take anything more then weak damage. At this point the beatstick gets charged by the Ice Golem and normally they don't have the best of defenses and they will be in huge trouble.

Even if they have support they are trading hits on their big guy, for hits on your Ice Gamin who has Armor 1 and Defensive/Statue and explodes so it's a great tradeoff for your side. And if they somehow are strong enough to kill those two units, have your Essence linked Rasputina Decembers Curse blast them while they're still very close together from killing your guys and waste them all.

[CrazyBones]

I have a running disagreement with a fellow gamer in my area. I am not too fond of the Ice Golem, he isn't horrible by any means but for the points I'd much rather invest 1 more and get a Steamborg.

The armor and possibility of Subzero can make him last for a while but if your opponent is smart he/she will likely just avoid or go around the Golem.

[archangelq]

And that local gamer would be me ;)

I see the steamborg as a great way to deal with a single target. I see the Ice Golem as a great way to deal with multiple targets. It all depends on what you are facing off against.

[Nutcase168]

I keep meaning to try him out as my local meta seems to like ranged heavy armies and my Ramos list is very lacking in that.

[Wombats]

I don't actually get to shoot him that much as I use him as a melee shield for Tina then Biting Chill things away.

While his shooting is great, its nothing next to 3 December's Curses from Tina plus Overpowers.

Even December's Curse gets +1 damage if the Golem activates first...