Ramos help

[knightdrake]

We are having a little issue with Ramos winning. Need some help with what others are using with him in 30-35ss games and how the crew is used. From what we have seen so far the impression is that he sucks.

[hannibal]

I've only played one game with him, but I was actually very impressed with how he did. It seems to me that Ramos is all about buffing up his team instead of doing direct damage.

When I played I took Ramos, 2 Arachnid Swarms, and the Steamborg in a 30 soulstone game. I found the best use for Ramos was to advance him up and then have him stand in the eye of the storm casting spells. I'd salvage scrap counters, then crank out an arachnid, whose whole job was to run interference in case someone got too close. Then later, I'd sacrifice the spider to heal as necessary.

Usually this left me with a free action to cast. I usually used either Arcing Screen, or electrical creation. The latter was especially fun because you were sending out floating bombs essentially. Arcing screen was a little less useful because of its short range, but it did act as a deterrent. The attack spell I'd only use if I had no other option.

Basically, I let the other guys do the heavy lifting and have Ramos be the director. The steamborg is pretty simple to use : point at enemy and let him go. The arachnid swarms really impressed me because they got a healing flip every turn and they could paralyze an enemy. Plus when in melee the sheer number of attacks they got was simply impressive.

Dunno if that helps, but like I said, only played one game.

[WEiRD sKeTCH]

Lilith...

With enough Soulstones, she can wreck his day.

[Angus Khan]

Ramos himself is a support caster and can seem weak when used incorrectly. I try and keep Ramos about 6+ inches from my front lines so if an enemy breaks through he's got a little bit of room to maneuver. Arching screen is great, but I usually like letting the totem cast it rather than Ramos because of the 3" range. Construct spider/ electrical creation are both very useful, but hard to pull of with out the right control hand... sometimes your actions are better spent somewhere else. I have found electrical fire to be very useful to whittle down enemies before the spiders move in to finish the job. Nice damage, good range, and an easy to achieve casting total = one very useful spell. (Don't necessarily put Ramos in a dangerous position in order to cast electrical fire on someone, but if the right opportunity presents itself, don't be afraid to zap them.)

Ramos is a delicate master, but if handled well can be very lethal. (Despite what AOM says, Lilith isn't actually all that...I've killed her using Ramos despite her having maxed out SS. Take that, Neverborn! :D)

As far as running a Ramos crew goes, my favorite list is:

Ramos
Joss
8 steam spiders
Totem or 2 extra SS

What I usually like to do is use Joss as an immediate threat, forcing my opponent to focus on killing him. (Even if my opponent doesn't fall for it and go after Joss, its still a win/win because left to his own devices Joss can be quite the lethal fighter.) Meanwhile, I move up my spiders individually (not in swarms) using terrain to keep from taking too many bullets. Once in melee range, I pick a target and latch on with a few spiders while the rest swarm together and attack. I can kill almost anything in one turn this way, since the swarms have melee master and the individual spiders lower the defense of the target enough to usually ensure positive fate. I usually wait to detonate the spiders until I've whittled the enemy down enough that my spiders out number his forces at least 2:1 (sometimes even 3:1), however sometimes I'll detonate one or two if a really juicy target comes along. (Don't detonate all your spiders too quickly, though, or you'll soon find Ramos all by his lonesome.)

Sorry for the long post, hope at least some of it is useful!

[orius]

Im with Angus Khan, my go to's are joss and the solo spiders and they gather as needed.

His listed tactics mirror my own as well. One of the best things about Ramos is that offensively he has spiders and electrical creations that can inflict damage that cannot be stopped. Defensively he has arcing screen that inflicts damage that cannot be stopped.

So if good old lilith with her 8 soul stones is across the table, well I horde 7+ of tombs like mad so i can make electrical creations/spiders to my hearts content. I have yet to make 3 electrical creations and one spider in the same turn but one day...one day it will happen!

[Isoulle]

As people here have said, spider bombs and electrical creations are key. Unresistable damage is king and Ramos forces your enemy to spread his army out otherwise blast damage kills the entire enemy army.

There's a lot you can do army wise with Ramos. The usual is 1 big creature and the rest being spiders. Though you can make the big thing a spider swarm, or 2-3 and go crazy. It's a lot of fun. You do have to keep Ramos close so he can create more spiders.

It's all about attrition, swarming, locking enemies in combat, and blowing up your guys.

[CrazyBones]

I believe Ramos is actually one of the better masters. However he requires more skill to run. He is not a straightforward figure and can't be used as a offensive beat stick.

I agree with the above on taking some single spiders although i have a hard time NOT taking a Steamborg considing how lethal it is. I find my opponents concentrating on the borg while my spiders gain a strong striking position and Ramos remains in cover pumping out spiders. Even then, my borg tends to take out 1 if not 2 figures before he falls.

[Dv8guy]

Any thoughts on Alyce with Ramos?

[Angus Khan]

Any thoughts on Alyce with Ramos?

The +2 card draw is amazing, but that does mean she has to stay close to Ramos... This is unfortunate because she is pretty good at both melee and ranged attacks. Her ability to make steampunk Aboms makes her perfect for a Ramos crew, since it allows for at least 3 constructs being summoned in one turn. (More if the brass arachnid is nearby...) Also, Burn Out is well suited for steamspiders, since they die quickly anyway.

[TheBugKing]

At 10ss Alyce is a tough sell. However the ability to draw 8 and keep six with a master that already has stoke is huge. Alyce can also drop snares to protect Ramos. The thing is that she takes up the big slot in a typical list. It's really hard to keep your spiders out of the crosshairs with Alyce on the table as you don't usually have that immediate must deal with threat that Joss and the 'brog present. She does bring headshot to the table though.

It's a tough sell certainly and makes a relatively steep road that much steeper.

[Dv8guy]

The plan is Ramos, Joss, Alyce, and a totem (either student or arachnid) at 25 ss. Then add spiders as the fight size goes up.

[Angus Khan]

The plan is Ramos, Joss, Alyce, and a totem (either student or arachnid) at 25 ss. Then add spiders as the fight size goes up.

Risky, but as I mentioned in the other thread it is doable. Be careful, though, since any mistake could cost you dearly...

[Dv8guy]

So I have now run Ramos. I brought Ramos, Joss, Alyce, brass arachnid, and one steampunk arachnid, leaving me with 8ss in game. I played against Marcus, rattler, sabertooth, 3 molemen, and she had 8 ss. I had slaughter, bodyguard, and hold out. Marcus had assassinate, and 2 sabotage.

When the dust had settled all that was left at the end of turn 5 was a sabretooth with 2wd. And Alyce ramos and the brass arachnid. Marcus had gotten his 2 sabatoge off early with the tiger.

My thoughts afterwards are these. Having joss active 3-4 times in a turn is amazing even if he does after (stoke, overload, and burn out) eapecialy with how easy burout it to get off with Alyce haveing an 8 cast. Second if you can lure in a melée oriented army to a swarm next to an electrical creation it is one big boom. As the explosion kill the electrical creation as well. Last between surge and alyce's 2 extra cards you can get off those hard casts with ramos.

In the future I think I will bring the student of conflict over the brass arachnid.

[WEiRD sKeTCH]

My thoughts afterwards are these. Having joss active 3-4 times in a turn is amazing even if he does after (stoke, overload, and burn out) eapecialy with how easy burout it to get off with Alyce haveing an 8 cast. Second if you can lure in a melée oriented army to a swarm next to an electrical creation it is one big boom. As the explosion kill the electrical creation as well. Last between surge and alyce's 2 extra cards you can get off those hard casts with ramos.
Page 46 of the rulebook:

(*) Reactivate: The model may activate a second time this turn. A model may only Reactivate one time in a turn.

[Angus Khan]

Page 46 of the rulebook:

(*) Reactivate: The model may activate a second time this turn. A model may only Reactivate one time in a turn.

WS beat me too it... ;)

Nice idea, though.

[Dv8guy]

Ooooooops my bad. But I coulda spread them out and done ramos and the spider swarm an extra time. Stil the amount of deactivate in the list mitigates the low model count.

[archangelq]

Thought of that too, but the rulebook foiled me ;)

[Nutcase168]

yeah, I wanted the Joss reactivate until he dies or kills everything too but that's probably why you can only reactivate once.

Me I love reactivating spiders to have them move, move, attack, detonate.

[Dv8guy]

Personaly I love reactivating ramos

[Nutcase168]

Oh I do too but I would never do it with Alyce unless I was completely desperate.

[archangelq]

So, I've now played 3 games with Ramos, and here are the additional things I've learned. One, Brass spider, reactivate, two spiders in the first turn, and then hopefully another spider, a reactivate, move up twice and, and electrical creation second turn is a really good opening gambit. You want Ramos in a little ways so that he can zap with electrical fire anything that gets close or heal his constructs, but do not overexpose him. Once he's in melee, he's basically useless.

Also, the electrical creation is a great ability. Automatic damage, with a low risk of going off at your own models. I love this little guy.

Oh, also? I really like the Ice Golem with Ramos. Gives his crew some much needed ranged/template attacks. I'm considering one ice gamen as well, for the extra damage buff and to have another non-insignificant model.

[Vitzh]

Just how are you managing to get that many tomes? Or have that many scrap tokens?

[Massaen]

as long as you have 1 tome you can SS the total up to meet the construct spider. Also, salvage under fire gets the tokens

[agorfein]

But he is talking about getting off reactivate TWICE in consecutive turns (which you need a natural 11+ tome as it can't be soulstoned) as well as TWO spiders (each of which requires a tome and probably a soulstone or two). Unless your hand starts largely filled with tomes (of which you should average 1.5 in your starting hand) this is not going to happen.

[Vitzh]

You also have to be careful of SSing up for a spider. You need to cheat first then SS so you can still fail.

[agorfein]

You also have to be careful of SSing up for a spider. You need to cheat first then SS so you can still fail.

It's worse than that, you can't SS for Reactivate, only for casting Ramos' spells.

I REALLY REALLY want to get Ramos to work. If Malifaux was an RPG then Ramos would be exactly the character I'd like to play. However, his abilities seem really underwhelming compared to some of the other masters. I am beginning to think that creating spiders should be very secondary compared to creating electrical creations and supporting with electrical fire and arc. I still am not able to convince myself though...

[Nutcase168]

I haven't been able to 2 to spiders in a turn, but 1 and reactivate isn't as hard. I bring Rusty Alyce who lets me draw 2 more cards, plus any time you cast the spider you are triggering surge letting you discard a card and draw another.

[Parius]

Using soulstones with Ramos to summon is the trick to making this work. If you cheat in a tome or happen to flip one the number value mostly doesn't matter once you add to the casting total. (It's easy enough to flip the remaining value needed) And, though soulstones are important for defense, look at it this way... You're paying 1 point and using a 0 action to bring out a 3 point model. Even if you are only successful every other try, you are still coming out ahead in points.

[Brasidas]

plus any time you cast the spider you are triggering surge letting you discard a card and draw another.
Double check the wording of Surge, I don't have my book with me at work today, but I believe that in order for Surge to trigger, your opponent must fail his resist test. No resist test on spider creation. IIRC, the only spell of Ramos' that you could trigger Surge off of would be Electrical Fire.

[WEiRD sKeTCH]

Brasidas is correct.

You have to be able to perform all of the requirements of a trigger in order to perform it.

Thus, Surge requires that there is a defender failing a resist for it to be performed.

[nerdelemental]

Which is why Marcos is confused. He's like, "Oh, me! Me! I want to Surge! Come here and let me heal you so I can Surge!"
:heeeellll

[archangelq]

Also, though I haven't tried it yet, you can always use 'focus(2)' to give yourself a positive flip on the attempt at casting the reactivate spell on the brass arachnid. I plan to try that next time I don't have a 10+ tomb in my control hand when I'm planning to use it.

[agorfein]

Also, though I haven't tried it yet, you can always use 'focus(2)' to give yourself a positive flip on the attempt at casting the reactivate spell on the brass arachnid. I plan to try that next time I don't have a 10+ tomb in my control hand when I'm planning to use it.

I suppose it's worth a shot, though the odds aren't good. You need an 11+ to cast (surge is 16) which means there are 4 cards in the deck which will do it: 11, 12, 13 tomes and the red joker. Assuming you don't have one in your six card hand, that gives you a 4 in 47 (54 card deck minus 6 in hand and 1 for initiative) chance of drawing it on the first draw and 4 in 46 on the second. Your odds may be better if it is later in the turn and the needed cards haven't come up and a bit better still as you probably had some discards from the previous turn.

[Nutcase168]

Don't you reshuffle your discards in during each closing phase?

[archangelq]

Stuff from the previous turn, yes. But your control hand discards go down at the beginning of the turn, right before draw, after you've shuffled.

@agorfein: True on the odds, but if you can pull it off, totally worth it. Just suggesting things to help your odds out.

Starting with a crew of swarm + spider and ending the first turn with swarm + swarm is a great way to start the game.

[Skeenip]

Not a Ramos player myself (so unsure of the names/action requirements) but i've had the following happen to me with swarms.

My opponent was capitilising on the split/combine ability. Wk either as a swarm/single then split/combine for an additional 6 inches of summon distance. The summoned model/s receives slow but may activate again (classified as a new entity). Seems like a good setup for some tricky combo's.

- Greater flexibility in detonation positioning
- Almost risk free line penetration
- Ability to focus melee targets at your own discretion
- Easy setup for latching

Again i'm not a ramos player so i'm not sure if the tactic was valid, but I couldn't see why it wouldn't work.

[Parius]

My opponent was capitilising on the split/combine ability. Wk either as a swarm/single then split/combine for an additional 6 inches of summon distance.

This, sadly, does not work though I really wish that it did to help out with how slow moving the spiders are.


Buried on Page 21 of the rules discussion forum...
http://wyrd-games.net/forum/showthread.php?t=7446

When you swarm, or break apart, the new models replace the old's spot.

[cerealkiller195]

still not a bad tactic since they count as summoned gives you an extra activation of movement or attack of something is really that close?

[Parius]

It's a great tactic, just doesn't give you the extra movement. It works much better in reverse though... Double walk or charge 3 singles in, use latch on (effect lasts till end of turn) combine into a swarm, and get off 3 attacks with your opponent's reduced Df score!

[Fool]

It's a great tactic, just doesn't give you the extra movement. It works much better in reverse though... Double walk or charge 3 singles in, use latch on (effect lasts till end of turn) combine into a swarm, and get off 3 attacks with your opponent's reduced Df score!

Not how it works either.

Doing the combine takes an (1) action. you could walk (once) 2 spiders in do a latch on and attack once. Then you would have to walk the other spider up (and touching both of the first spiders) and do a (1) combine. When it is your turn again you are slow and can use your 1ap left to attack, and then use melee expert to attack further. Latch on will no longer be in effect though, because the models that latched on are no longer on the table.

[Parius]

Latch on will no longer be in effect though, because the models that latched on are no longer on the table.

So in Malifaux, removing the source of an effect removes the effect? I don't have my book with me to look into this.

[Fool]

So in Malifaux, removing the source of an effect removes the effect? I don't have my book with me to look into this.

I've been wrong twice today so this may be wrong also :irked:

[TheBugKing]

So in Malifaux, removing the source of an effect removes the effect? I don't have my book with me to look into this.

latch on is a rather specific case. You have to meet the conditions of teh ability. Namely being in base to base for it to work. If you aren't in BtB it stops working.

Since the Swarm doesn't have latch on the effect does not carry over.

Paralyze from Overwhelm simply states that the model gains paralyzed. There are no conditions on it once the event is created. In that case the effect continues even if the model that caused teh effect is no longer on the table.

[Parius]

Thank you for the clarification, I've been playing this wrong.

(+1 to Fool for noticing)

Are there any other conditional abilities like this?