Supply Wagon & Damage

[Hansel]

So the Supply Wagon has 3 hardness, which implies that it follows the rules for breakable items. However, the breakable rules don't fully translate to the Supply Wagon rules.

Breakable states that if you exceed the hardness of an item on a damage flip (you hit automatically), it's destroyed. A Supply Wagon can take 3 dg before being destroyed. Does this mean:

Any damage done over the 3 hardness counts as extra damage; i.e., if I deal 6 dg to the Supply Wagon (6 dg - 3 hardness = 3 dg), it is destroyed?

Or does exceeding the hardness, no matter how much damage I deal, just do 1 dg; i.e., to destroy the Supply Wagon I'd have to hit it 3 separate times for at least 4 dg (exceeding its 3 hardness) each?

My intuition says the former, but the rules aren't clear. Thanks!

[LoboStele]

You have to hit it 3 separate times. Each hit must be at least 4 Dg in order to count.

[Hansel]

Cool, is there anything clarifying in the Rules Manual that would tell me this?

[CubertFarnsworth]

Cool, is there anything clarifying in the Rules Manual that would tell me this?

Yeah I am with you on that one, because I am not seeing it either.

[Ratty]

Correction.

[Hansel]

Perfect, thanks Ratty.

[CubertFarnsworth]

so the rational here is:

what ever you beat the Hardness by that is the amount of damage you do, and the amount of wounds somethings has is the hardness value?

and if that is correct, can someone please point me to that in that new Rules PDF.

Thank you

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

Hardness is not total wounds hardness is just premium armor block 3 wds period everything else going through. 3 damage is under supply wagon entry. Just happens to be a coincidence the numbers match.

[Shawn Kehoe]

so the rational here is:

what ever you beat the Hardness by that is the amount of damage you do, and the amount of wounds somethings has is the hardness value?

and if that is correct, can someone please point me to that in that new Rules PDF.

Thank you

The standard rule is that when you attack breakable terrain, you must deal damage greater than its hardness in a single strike in order to break it. The Supply Wagon strategy added ambiguity by specifying that the wagon had wounds and hardness. Fortunately, Ratty has cleared that up.

[LoboStele]

http://malifaux.nezumi.me.uk/M_Ruling.jpg
The Wagon takes a Dg for each point of Dg above the Hardness it takes.

So if a model did 6 Damage, it would be destroyed in one hit.

Say wah?? That's new. Interesting. Means almost any large piece can one-shot the Wagon with a Severe damage flip (lots of stuff that does 6 damage). Not sure if I like that. Makes it way too easy for an opponent to swoop in and sacrifice their big baddie, just to deny you all 4 points.

Why would it be Terrain with Hardness 3 then, and not just a model with Object 3? I know this is the ruling, but this one of the rare instances where I don't agree with it, so I'll speak up and offer an opinion, with the hope that it might possibly change. :(

[poulpox]

Not sure if I like that. Makes it way too easy for an opponent to swoop in and sacrifice their big baddie, just to deny you all 4 points.


Well it might just mean you have to keep one of your models close-by at all times to prevent strikes against the wagon. I agree the ruling makes the wagon easy to destroy, but only if you leave the Wagon alone; there's just a shift in play-style here I think. Since you need only to have one of your models in melee range of the wagon to prevent enemies from striking it, you could have a Ht2 model standing on the other side of the wagon, its LoS blocked (hence protected from incoming strikes too) and walk along, and no one can target the wagon before first having a go at that model, any charger risking counter-charge; and use a second model in front of the wagon to control its speed (although this one will be exposed to the enemy most likely). Challenging but interesting!
It is a hard strategy to get the hang of I think, particularly with respect to how quick should the wagon arrive in the centre (ie too early and the opponent goes at it easily, too slow and it doesn't reach the centre of the table)., but it makes it all the more funky! :)

[wrabbit37]

Why would it be Terrain with Hardness 3 then, and not just a model with Object 3?

Object is to a minimum of 1 WD, so a model could hit it for 1 Damage and still do 1 WD to it. Hardness means that attacks that do 3 or less damage don't do anything to it.

[WEiRD sKeTCH]

Well, I have to step in here and correct Ratty.

CORRECT
http://malifaux.nezumi.me.uk/M_Ruling.jpg
The Supply Wagon must be damaged 3 times before it is destroyed.

Hardness 3 means that you have to do 4+ damage in order to damage it once.

[LoboStele]

OK, cool. So I was correct to start with. Cool, I was going completely bonkers then. Thanks Sketch.

Also, @ Wrabbit, good point about the Object. That didn't click with me when I mentioned it.

[wrabbit37]

Well, I have to step in here and correct Ratty.

CORRECT
http://malifaux.nezumi.me.uk/M_Ruling.jpg
The Supply Wagon must be damaged 3 times before it is destroyed.

Hardness 3 means that you have to do 4+ damage in order to damage it once.

Okay, good. That's how we've been playing it. Thanks Sketch!

[poulpox]

Funky and doable now ;)