Paralyzed Vs Machine Puppet?

[poulpox]

Hello!
I was wondering if a paralyzed model would be able to do a strike through Hoff's Machine Puppet?

Chrrzzz..

[FearLord]

Hello!
I was wondering if a paralyzed model would be able to do a strike through Hoff's Machine Puppet?

Chrrzzz..

Difficult - paralyzed states that the model cannot make actions and has no melee range. Machine Puppet makes the construct make a strike (not a strike action) so by a strict reading, it should be possible, however, without a melee range, melee attacks are presumably impossible... So yes with ranged, no with melee... (?!)

However, we are still waiting for a reply to this topic http://www.wyrd-games.net/forum/showthread.php?t=20640 about whether Maintain Machines would allow constructs in its area of effect (and by extension, range of machine puppet) to ignore effects like slow or paralyzed...

[marshimartian]

Paralyzed models may not take any actions, be it through pipes, obey, or machine puppet.

[FearLord]

Paralyzed models may not take any actions, be it through pipes, obey, or machine puppet.

There is a difference between a Strike and a (1) Strike Action... Paralyzed says that you cannot make actions, not that you cannot make Strikes...

[poulpox]

There is a difference between a Strike and a (1) Strike Action... Paralyzed says that you cannot make actions, not that you cannot make Strikes...

Yes that was a bit my confusion: is the Puppet strike considered an action? To support that the puppet strike is indeed an action, I think the fact that it is written Strike (capitalised and in bold) means it is considered as the (1) Strike action (several times in the RM '(1) Strike' is referred to simply as 'Strike'), but I might be wrong.

[marshimartian]

A Strike is an action, and may not be done while paralyzed, however, you could attempt tup activate the paralyzed model before activating Hoffman so that the model is no longer paralyzed, basically giving up an activation.

[Wodschow]

A Strike is an action, and may not be done while paralyzed, however, you could attempt tup activate the paralyzed model before activating Hoffman so that the model is no longer paralyzed, basically giving up an activation.

Atually Ratty said this in another thread:


If it says Strike Action it is referring to the (1)Strike. (2)Focus allows you to take a Strike but it's not an action.

Emphasis mine.

Untill he said this however I would've agreed with you that every Strike was in fact a Strike action... Now it's all a bit of a mess to be honest..

But hey - if Hoffman can animate pieces of scrap with no circuit, it shouldn't be a problem to make a paralyzed construct make a ranged Strike, eh?

[poulpox]

Atually Ratty said this in another thread:



Emphasis mine.

Untill he said this however I would've agreed with you that every Strike was in fact a Strike action... Now it's all a bit of a mess to be honest..

But hey - if Hoffman can animate pieces of scrap with no circuit, it shouldn't be a problem to make a paralyzed construct make a ranged Strike, eh?


Well that messes up everything now does it!!

[FearLord]

I don't really see it as that big a deal - if an ability references a 'Strike Action' it is referring to a (1) Strike. If it says 'strike' it is referring to the act of making an attack with a melee or ranged weapon.

As I said further up, there is a difference between a strike and an action that makes a strike...

[Pink Horror]

Untill he said this however I would've agreed with you that every Strike was in fact a Strike action... Now it's all a bit of a mess to be honest..

Well, maybe they should rethink this Rules Marshall program.

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

What do you mean? The program is very helpful, and most if not all responses are well thought out and accepted.

[marshimartian]

Paralyzed: a model gaining Paralyzed during its activation loses any remaining AP and its activation immediately ends. If the model gains Paralyzed outside of its activation, it forfeits its next activation. While Paralyzed, a model has no melee range, cannot take any type of action, cannot activate triggers, and cannot react to disengaging models. A Paralyzed model does not make a fall back move when it loses a Morale Duel, but does rally as normal (Morale, p. 56)

Paralyzed models have no melee range, so you can machine puppet strike to your heart's content, you just can't hit anything. That better reasoning?

[poulpox]

Paralyzed models have no melee range, so you can machine puppet strike to your heart's content, you just can't hit anything. That better reasoning?

So far this is the safest argument, yes.

[FearLord]

Paralyzed: a model gaining Paralyzed during its activation loses any remaining AP and its activation immediately ends. If the model gains Paralyzed outside of its activation, it forfeits its next activation. While Paralyzed, a model has no melee range, cannot take any type of action, cannot activate triggers, and cannot react to disengaging models. A Paralyzed model does not make a fall back move when it loses a Morale Duel, but does rally as normal (Morale, p. 56)

Paralyzed models have no melee range, so you can machine puppet strike to your heart's content, you just can't hit anything. That better reasoning?

That's what I said in my first post - you have no melee range, so can't make melee strikes - I see nothing stopping a construct making ranged strikes via Machine Puppet, even while paralyzed...

[marshimartian]

That's what I said in my first post - you have no melee range, so can't make melee strikes - I see nothing stopping a construct making ranged strikes via Machine Puppet, even while paralyzed...

My mistake, sorry. I would like to reference the Ratty thread posted earlier, there he is talking about Focus not being a Strike action for the purposes of the Alps ability. He's not saying that strike is not an action, but that it is part of the Focus action. I'm not sure that ruling is 100% transferable.

Furthermore, as far as the spirit of the rules goes, if a model can't move enough to make even a Bash, how is it supposed to use a ranged weapon?

But a Rules Marshall would be very much appreciated on this...