Can Critical Strike trigger even if my Duel fails?

[Hansel]

So I was re-reading the Rules Manual today, and the exact order of Opposed Duels brought up the question above. To review, here's how Opposed Duels go, step by step (p. 28, Rules Manual):

1. Flip For Starting Duel Totals
2. Change Starting Totals or Pass
3. Determine Final Duel Totals
4. Declare Trigger
5. Determine Success
6. Apply Duel Results

I want to focus on 4 & 5, here. Triggers are declared before overall duel success is determined. Let's look more closely at the Declare Trigger step:

"Starting with the model with the lower total, or the defending model if the totals are tied, each model may now declare one Trigger that it has met the suit requirements for. The Trigger's description will indicate when its effects are applied."

Now, let's look at the relevant bit of Critical Strike (p. 118, Rules Manual):

"This Weapon inflicts +1 Dg for each [ram] in this model's Duel total."

It doesn't state that you have to successfully strike or damage a target for it to go off. It just says that for each ram in the Duel total, the model inflicts +1 Dg.

Again, the Trigger's description will indicate when its effects are applied.

So I do an opposed duel with my Witchling Stalker vs. your whatever. We go through the steps up until #4, we have our Duel totals, then we do step 4: I activate Critical Strike, say for +1 (Witchlings have a ram in their Cb stat, so they auto-crit). The target takes +1 Dg. Then we move to Step 5, and it turns out my Witchling fails the Duel and does no damage.

But the Critical Strike triggered before we determined Duel success, right? So the target would still take Critical Strike damage even if the duel is failed.

Am I missing something here, or is this correct?

[infernosolarc]

You aren't doing 0 damage though. You are failing to damage at all. You never get to the deal damage step, since you missed.

That being said, if you had an attack that dealt weapon damage even on a miss, (Guardian's Shield?), it MAY get the bonus damage from Critical Strike. Not really clear at the moment.

[Sliver Chocobo]

Unless your hiting with guardians shield I will say no, with guardians shield unless told otherwise by a rules Marshel I will say yes

[Keltheos]

Clarification
P43 "If the attacker hit the defender with the attack, the attacker inflicts damage"

Damage-inflicting Triggers during an attack don't resolve their effects when the attack misses. So in the case of Critical Strike the Trigger's bonus damage would be wasted. The exception being when the Weapon is still capable of inflicting damage on a miss, such as with the Guardian's Shield.

The Guardian's Shield would benefit as it is inflicting damage with its Dg stat even though the attack was a miss.

[Darguth]

One important thing to take away from this in general, is that you declare what triggers you intend to use before they actually have an opportunity to take effect. As you said, you declare them before you even determine success/failure. So you can get a trigger suit, declare your trigger, and then have it actually do nothing in the end.

[Hookers]

One important thing to take away from this in general, is that you declare what triggers you intend to use before they actually have an opportunity to take effect. As you said, you declare them before you even determine success/failure. So you can get a trigger suit, declare your trigger, and then have it actually do nothing in the end.


because of this, i declare "Squeel!" as my trigger in every duel where I do not have another trigger regardless of if it was a melee attack, the attack did damage, there is a mask, it was attacking my Df stat, I'm the one defending, or I'm even playing Gremlins at all!

Unfortunately, 99% of the time my declared trigger has no effect :bawling: