Samael Hopkins,Ricochet,and flaming bullets

[Dark Alleycat]

Ok..So I have recently began playing Sonnia Criid,and as such have taken to using her cowboy companion Samael.

Now he has an ability called Flaming bullets,which adds 2 damage to his strikes,and arcane hunter which adds 2 cb and 1 damage to his strikes when targetting a model with cast 6 or higher.

Now,he has a trigger called Ricochet :after damaging defender with a ranged attack,another model within 3" of defender suffers dg 1/2/4.

Now,I know that flaming bullets would apply to the first shot. Would it apply to the ricochet shot as well?

What about Arcane Hunter and the extra damage?

Obviously this would make his ricochet ability very powerful when used in the right situations.

Giving him a 6/7/8 followed by a 4/5/7 on another model.
Now,my reasoning for asking this is for instance flaming bullets says his ranged strikes inflict +2 dg. From what I understand,the effect of the trigger is part of the strike that its attached to. Like Flay does 2+base damage..rather then the base damage,and then another 2 damage.
Arcane hunter is a bit less clear,considering it says inflicts +1 dg when attacking a model with Ca 6 or more.

[tadaka]

As far as I understand it a trigger is its own action. The trigger it self is not a ranged attack. In this case it would just be the listed damage flip.

[Wodschow]

I'd argue that the trigger is not a ranged Strike, so no extra damage from Flaming Bullets.

Nor is it an 'attack' as per the definition on page 18 of the Rules Manual, so no extra damage from Arcane Hunter either.


Edit:
@tadaka, be careful with the terminology, triggers aren't exactly actions (if they were it'd be considered an attack and thus Arcane Hunter would add damage to Ricohet).

[Dark Alleycat]

ok,so while still useful it isnt quite as happy as I had hoped apparently. Ah well.

[nilus]

ok,so while still useful it isnt quite as happy as I had hoped apparently. Ah well.

Well is still does make his range attack one of the highest damage output in the game. Reminds me I need to snap off his little gun and give him a real hand cannon.

[Dark Alleycat]

But still..I was hoping for something that could put a damper on say,Pandora's day when she has Sorrows surrounding her.

Now,would this mean that you could hit Pandora without the wp duel to target her,or the Dreamer if he was the only model within 3 inchs?
With the ricochet i mean.

[tadaka]

Ya I was having issues with how to word that.

[tadaka]

Far as i know it both dreamer and Pandora can get smacked by this as it does not target them as written. (only have book not card don't think it changed)

[Dark Alleycat]

*grins* I can think of plenty of ways that this could ruin a persons day lol. What about something like the supply wagon. would it be able to take damage?

[tadaka]

Wagon is not a model as I know it.

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

No it requires melee source of ricochet is range, so you wouldn't be qble to Target wagon. But still bypasses dreamer and Pandora since Target is not in wording. Bulletproof would still work.

Yes you can use it agianst my Pandora if we are paired and if I pick Pandora. If we are using gaining ground this Saturday supply wagon is not a strategy option.

[Dark Alleycat]

Unfortunately it wont do the insane amount of damage I had hoped It would,but I am still looking for anything I can do to make Pandora less painful lol.

[Atherzon]

No it requires melee source of ricochet is range, so you wouldn't be qble to Target wagon. But still bypasses dreamer and Pandora since Target is not in wording. Bulletproof would still work.

Richochet is not a melee attack, so it cannot hurt the wagon, but it is not a ranged attack, either, so Bulletproof does not help.

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

Richochet is not a melee attack, so it cannot hurt the wagon, but it is not a ranged attack, either, so Bulletproof does not help.

I'm pretty sure a trigger doesn't change the source of damage. The source is from a ranged attack. Part in rules manual that clarifies. Don't have book with me so maybe in the wording of bulletproof.

[Atherzon]

I'm pretty sure a trigger doesn't change the source of damage. The source is from a ranged attack. Part in rules manual that clarifies. Don't have book with me so maybe in the wording of bulletproof.

If that is the case, then I missed it and can't find it in the rulebook. If you can verify that, please let me know.

As for Bulletproof, it is just Armor vs. ranged attacks, so if Ricochet is still a ranged attack because it triggered off of one then Bulletproof would still apply.

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

I concede, I can't find anything that supports my claim, and this http://wyrd-games.net/forum/showthread.php?t=9967&highlight=ricochet I don't see why this has changed nor can I is contrary to my statement. Nor can I find anything in new rulebook either. I always understood these kind of damage flip triggers differently. Only armor would work, not bulletproof.

[Dark Alleycat]

So wait,would ricochet affect the supply wagon or no?

[Atherzon]

So wait,would ricochet affect the supply wagon or no?

The Supply Wagon can only be damaged by melee attacks, and Ricochet is definitely not a melee attack, so Ricochet cannot hurt it.

[Atherzon]

I concede, I can't find anything that supports my claim, and this http://wyrd-games.net/forum/showthread.php?t=9967&highlight=ricochet I don't see why this has changed nor can I is contrary to my statement. Nor can I find anything in new rulebook either. I always understood these kind of damage flip triggers differently. Only armor would work, not bulletproof.

To be fair, I think that people that have only really read the new rulebook may be at a little bit of an advantage with some things since we do not have a couple of years of errata and rulings to confuse us.