Replace and APs

[13th Warrior]

Hi, I know there are several threads sort of covering this, and there have been a couple of Marshall's rulings (principally about models splitting apart), but I'm still not entirely clear about the Replace action and how many APs are left afterwards.

So, Coryphee A activates and uses (0) Lost in Dance; it then uses 1AP to Dance Together with Coryphee B to form a Duet.

How many APs & (0) Actions does the Duet have? Previously I would have played it as 3 of each, but the new rules manual and the rules marshall ruling appear to have muddied that water, as it was pointed out that a model only gets APs when it activates, and as it hasn't activated yet, it has no APs, so it can only have the 1 general AP from Coryphee A and the +1 from Fast. But then what happens to the (0) actions?

And, in the wording of Replace in the new rulebook, the "new" model "...continues the Activation...". So it has activated, therefore it should get the 3AP from Coryphee B.

Erm, help?

[LoboStele]

Hi, I know there are several threads sort of covering this, and there have been a couple of Marshall's rulings (principally about models splitting apart), but I'm still not entirely clear about the Replace action and how many APs are left afterwards.

So, Coryphee A activates and uses (0) Lost in Dance; it then uses 1AP to Dance Together with Coryphee B to form a Duet.

How many APs & (0) Actions does the Duet have? Previously I would have played it as 3 of each, but the new rules manual and the rules marshall ruling appear to have muddied that water, as it was pointed out that a model only gets APs when it activates, and as it hasn't activated yet, it has no APs, so it can only have the 1 general AP from Coryphee A and the +1 from Fast. But then what happens to the (0) actions?

And, in the wording of Replace in the new rulebook, the "new" model "...continues the Activation...". So it has activated, therefore it should get the 3AP from Coryphee B.

Erm, help?


Whenever a model gets to activate, it gets however many (0) actions it normally should have. So, the Duet will always get 3 (0) actions. But you are correct in that the Duet would only get 1 General AP and then it's (+1) Fast, based on your example.

[karn987]

Page 32 Action Basics:
"Each model receives two (2) general action points (AP) at the start of its activation."

So the non-activating Corphyee has 0 Ap at the time they combine together. Thus you only get the Ap from the activating model truthfully.

But (0) actions are not Ap, you just have the ability to use x number of them when you activate. So the replacing multiple models part of this doesn't matter.

*edit: Ninja'd by Lobo! Blast!*

[nix]

I understood that due to the wording of replace (RM pg 38) indicated the replacing model (the duet in this case) continued the activation of the original model (coryphee a in this case). If coryphee a had already used a 0 action then the duet would count as having used the 0 action as well, and not be able to use another 0 without an ability granting multiple use of 0ap actions.

So in this case the chain of events would be:


Coryphee A activates (gains 2 AP)
Coryphee A uses "lost in dance" (0 ap)
Coryphee A uses (1) dance together with Coryphee B creating a Duet
Duet continues the activation with 1 general ap (left over from Coryphee A), +1 general ap (from fast), and has the effects of Lost in Dance currently active.
Duet can use 2 more (0) because it already used 1 as coryphee A, but has subconscious actions allowing up to 2 more.

[13th Warrior]

@Nix - Thanks, that makes a lot of sense.

I think it's been the (0) actions that have been bothering me - people have been saying you get 3 (0) actions when the Duet activates, but also saying that you don't get the 2 general AP because you haven't activated "properly" in some way, so getting 3 (0) actions and only the remaining general APs plus fast felt like two different things were being combined.

Treating it as a continuation of Coryphee A's activation and counting her actions against the total actions available to the Duet feels much better, even if you do lose out on a couple of actions in the turn you combine.

Doing it this way means you get effectively the AP allowance of the Duet in any turn when they Dance Together, whereas previously a single Coryphee could get 2 actions and a (0) action on her own, then get another 3 of each as part of the Duet.

Unless it gets ruled differently, this is the way I'll be playing it from now on.

Ta.

[Adran]

Coryphee A moves twice, and uses 2 zero actions. (Say + 2 willpower and use soulstone) It is in base contact with corephyee B.
New activation
Coryphee B activates. Uses its Zero action. Uses Instinctual to do a second different zero action (Say masks on Casting and sword dancer). It uses 1 AP to combine to form the duet.
The Duet continues the activation. It gets the 1 AP left from B, the Fast AP, and can use subconcouse thought to use two 0 actions it hasn't done yet.
The 4 zero actions it already have done are already effecting the duet so it can't repeat any of them.

So each Crephyee can do two 0 actions, 1 as its zerop action, and one as its instictual action, and then when they combine its Zero action has been used, but it still gets to do two different zero actions because it hasn't yet done any from Subcouncous thought

(can't remember all the abilities, but hope this helps)

[tadaka]

Our local group has played it as such.

Only general action points are taken from the replaced model by the wording of the rules. 0 actions and things such as melee master are not covered in any way by the replace rules so we run it as the model has the normal actions it would have had for a new activation. Nothing in the rules says to change other action points so there is no reason to do otherwise.

That being said it would be nice to get an offical on this as it comes up frequently.