Additional damage flips?

[FearLord]

If a rule causes an additional damage flip, do the :+fate or :-fate from the first damage flip affect the additional flip or do you just flip over one card? Can multiple events trigger an additional damage flip?

For example - A Guard Captain fires his Mauser 9 at a model with Hard to wound 2. The attack duel ends with no modifier to the damage flip, so the captain flips 3 cards for damage. Normally, he would have to pick the lowest card to apply, but he flips the Red Joker, and can use that instead.

The Red Joker causes severe damage and an additional flip:

1) Does the additional damage flip caused by the Red Joker get the :-fate:-fate or is it simply one card, apply the damage?

2) The Mauser 9 has a rule that means you deal an additional damage flip when you deal Severe damage - is this just one card or the same damage flip as the first?

3) Flipping the Red Joker causes severe damage for the Mauser 9's rule - do I get both additional damage flips (so 3 separate damage flips?)

4) If the additional damage flip (either) causes severe damage, do you make another damage flip from the Mauser 9's rule? (In which case, you could continue making damage flips, as long as you kept flipping severe damage?)

[Ratty]

1) It's just an additional card, it's not a Damage Flip so you can't cheat it either.

2) It's just an additional card on top of the one you flipped

3) The Red Joker count as a severe flip so if you flipped the Red Joker I believe you would get an extra card for the Mauser.

4) I think it happens after the damage for the weapon is resolved, so you don't get another card. but I could see how it could be read either way. It's a bit of a gut feeling though so I might be wrong.

[Wulfen]

I had this happen over the weekend with Ryle. I had a trip negative damage flip on an Ice Golem, but got the Red Joker on damage. Because that was severe damage, and on top of that I called his extra damage trigger, I got four flips of damage. Red Joker and it's bonus flip, extra flip for severe, and another extra flip for the trigger. I'm fairly certain only the initial flip of severe gets the extra flip.

[FearLord]

Thanks for the input guys - if this is correct (only the first flip causes additional flips) does this also apply to triggers?

For example, Hoffman uses Machine Puppet on a Mechanical Assistant to make a Mauser 9 Strike against a target. He hits (using a ram, thus giving him 2 rams for critical strike) and flips the Red Joker for damage. This allows him to flip another card (say moderate damage) and then a further card for the Mauser's Severe damage rule (say Severe again). Does the Critical Strike trigger only apply to the severe damage from the red joker, or does it apply to all the damage flips from that attack - i.e is damage:

(3+2) + 2 + 3 = 10

or

(3+2) + (2+2) + (3+2) = 14

[Sliver Chocobo]

Quick question on the Mauser, if you flip a red joker on damage, do you get to flip an extra card from the red joker and the for dealing severe damage and if the damage flip from the red joker hits a severe do then get to make an additional damage flip

[LoboStele]

This has been answered elsewhere, but with things like the Mechanical Attendant, you only make 1 additional flip, based on the initial damage flip. So, if you flip the Red Joker, then you would flip 1 more card due to the Joker, and 1 more card due to the Weapon ability. Regardless of what the extra flip from the Joker is, you are done flipping cards.

As for the Critical Strike question via Machine Puppet....I'm pretty sure the Crit damage only applies to the base damage stat. Or, another way to think of it, you would total up all of your damage first (first flip, assuming severe, plus second flip) and then add the extra +1 or +2 for Crit strike. Either way, the max damage with Crit Strike and an initial Severe flip would be 8 (assuming 2 :rams in the total).

[FearLord]

Another thought on this - how is Armor applied to these damage flips? Total the damage from all flips and deduct Armor or deduct Armor from the damage each card deals?

Also, Hard to Kill - if the first flip reduces the target to 1 wound, can the Mauser's additional flip then kill the target, or is it all one attack where the damage is applied all at once?

[LoboStele]

Another thought on this - how is Armor applied to these damage flips? Total the damage from all flips and deduct Armor or deduct Armor from the damage each card deals?

You total up all the damage from a single hit first, then start subtracting things like Armor or such.


Also, Hard to Kill - if the first flip reduces the target to 1 wound, can the Mauser's additional flip then kill the target, or is it all one attack where the damage is applied all at once?

Again, the 8 Dg I quoted above would be considered all one 'damage source'. That's kind of the terminology thrown around most of the time, and is the easiest way to think about it, when you start looking to see how things work like Armor, Hard to Kill, Slow to Die, etc.