Spirits and Crit strike Brutal

[DarcXON]

So according to the rules manual we divide /multiply first and then we subtract /add

Does this mean that things like Brutal and Critical strike are added after calculating the damage a spirit takes?

I ask because in the example the term used was Armor and in my LGS this has been taken either way.

[LoboStele]

Spirits only take half as many Wds as however much damage is coming in. So you have to calculate the total damage first, which means adding in things like Critical Strike or Brutal first. At least, that's how we understand it.

[DarcXON]

Correct and the other side of that is the fact that it's a division effect. Basically you are supposed to Half the damage(divide by two) then you are adding the critical strike (plus one to damage)

And this is why we were having the argument.

[nix]

Can both of you give references from the rules manual to support your logic? This may help clarify the concern/issue.

At least that's the trend I am seeing.

[LoboStele]

Well, the actual quote from the rule book is that Spirits "suffer half damage from non-magical sources." Not that this helps my argument at all.

Actually, I think it would be more akin to the discussion though of 'sources' of damage. Like, if somebody had Armor, then Critical Strike/Brutal would not be considered a separate 'source' of damage. In other words, you would add any instances of Critical Strike/Brutal all together first, and then subtract Armor from that total, as opposed to subtracting Armor from each one of them.

So, with a Spirit, you figure out the total damage being done by the hit (base + Crit/Brutal), and then you would divide it in half since it is a single source of damage.

I can see the flip side of the argument though in terms of multiple/divide first, and then add/subtract. Hmm...

[DarcXON]

Page 7 of the rules Manual says


Math Order
Modifiers should be applied in the following order:

First, Multiply/Divide Next, Add/Substract

Math Order Example: The Spirit characteristic halves incoming damage, while the Armor +1 ability reduces it by one point. If a Spirit with Armor +1 suffered six points of damage, the damage would be halved to three before been reduced by the Armor to two points.Page 118 of the Rules Manual


Cb(book) Brutal [Weapon]: This Weapon inflicts +1 Dg for each (book) in this model's duel totalBy the logic given in the example for Math Order, we should halve the damage and then add the Brutal/Critical Strike damage.

[LoboStele]

Yeah, it's kind of weird though...

Seems to me that you should calculate all of the incoming damage first, and then calculate how that damage converts from Dg to Wd. Because that's really what Spirit/Armor do, is convert it from Dg to Wd.

There's lots of old threads where it's been ruled about different things being 'sources' of damage. I can definitely see how it would make a difference though:

If you normally do 2 Dg +1 for Crit/Brutal, then you would do 2 Wds to a spirit either way.
If you normally do 3 Dg +1 for Crit Brutal, then you would do 3 Wds if you halve first, but only 2 Wds if you add them up for a single damage 'source' and then halve it.

[Keltheos]

Bud nipping in progress...

Spirits suffer half of the TOTAL damage suffered.

[elril]

So the argument is do you do the math rule for each step vs the total equation. keltheos has ruled and and apparently there are parentheses in the math equations=

(Damage inflicted mult/div then add/subtract) then (wounds taken mult/div then add substract)

Makes sense to me (how I would do it) but I understand where the other view point is coming from. Then again, I don't use any spirits.

[K.blas]

So the argument is do you do the math rule for each step vs the total equation. keltheos has ruled and and apparently there are parentheses in the math equations=

(Damage inflicted mult/div then add/subtract) then (wounds taken mult/div then add substract)

Makes sense to me (how I would do it) but I understand where the other view point is coming from. Then again, I don't use any spirits.

Huh?

All he said was, if you have flay for instance, you add it to your applicable damage table, THEN the spirit gets to halve that number.

[Keltheos]

Yes. This isn't college algebra.

In this case, add up ALL OF the damage to be inflicted from the strike, then inflict it...oh, it's a Spirit, halve that damage.

[DarcXON]

So this change affects Armor as well?

[Buhallin]

No, because armor is on the receiving end.

1. Calculate damage inflicted.
2. Damage hits target.
3. Target does what it can to mitigate damage.

The order of operations doesn't apply between Critical Strike and Spirit because they're not really happening at the same time. But Spirit and Armor are both occurring when the target takes damage, so they do follow PEMDAS.

[Keltheos]

What Buhallin said.

[marshimartian]

Brutal and Crit are calculating Dmg while Spirit and Armor are calculating Wd, two different operations for two different things