Paralyzed vs Slow to Die

[UN17]

Recently been playing against REALLY tough masters who are using Slow to Die and their soulstones to cheat death 8 or more times. Is there any way to kill them for good?

Another thread mentioned 1-shot kill effects like Disembowl, but Slow to Die's rules say that if a model is killed, it gets an immediate action (usually a Soulstone healing flip) AND does not die if it has 1 Wd remaining afterwards.

BUT! Paralyzed says a model can't take any actions. So could you stop a Slow to Die/Soulstone user from cheating death if you Paralyze them, then kill them?

[Stern]

well yep the only way to really kill them is drain the stones down first...

as for paralyzed yes they lose there activations but slow to die allows them to take a (1) action before they die, so CAN heal and stay alive (damn von schill, lucius and colette for being so tough!)

[Wodschow]

Another thread mentioned 1-shot kill effects like Disembowl, but Slow to Die's rules say that if a model is killed, it gets an immediate action (usually a Soulstone healing flip) AND does not die if it has 1 Wd remaining afterwards.

I don't think that's what's intended, because then OHKO kills would never work against models with Slow to Die as they don't affect the amount of Wd on the model, just gives them the 'killed' effect, which kills them regardless of the amount of Wd..

(Edit: What I'm saying is that 1-shot kill effects still work very well against models with StD)


BUT! Paralyzed says a model can't take any actions. So could you stop a Slow to Die/Soulstone user from cheating death if you Paralyze them, then kill them?

This would work aswell. Paralyzed trumps Slow to Die.

[Keltheos]

Right. A Paralyzed model cannot take a Slow to Die action as it cannot take Actions.


...cannot take any type of Action...

(1) Actions are a type of Action. ;)

Now, if it allowed the model to, say, do something that wasn't an action such as preventing Wd with a Soulstone (not taking the Heal Action, mind you) that would be allowed.

[Hookers]

I don't think that's what's intended, because then OHKO kills would never work against models with Slow to Die as they don't affect the amount of Wd on the model, just gives them the 'killed' effect, which kills them regardless of the amount of Wd..

(Edit: What I'm saying is that 1-shot kill effects still work very well against models with StD)




they will die, but they still get the action though. unless they are bete noire, then they won't die either.

[MrNybbles]

Another thread mentioned 1-shot kill effects like Disembowl, but Slow to Die's rules say that if a model is killed, it gets an immediate action (usually a Soulstone healing flip) AND does not die if it has 1 Wd remaining afterwards

The description of Slow to Die implies the model is dieing because it has 0 Wd remaining. If a model with Slow to Die is reduced to zero wounds then it may use its Slow to Die action to do something to bring its Wd back above zero to not die.

However, some triggers kill regardless of the number of Wd remaining. Headshot, Decapitate (Steamborg Executioner), Heart Stopper (Jack Daw) can kill models regardless of the number of Wd remaining and also don't inflict Wd at all. If one of these triggers kills a model (like Colette or Von Schill) the model could do a healing flip with the Slow to Die action, but would still be killed by the trigger's effect.

In Episode 28 (http://gamerslounge.coda.net/?p=412) of the Gamers Lounge Bill mentions something about Sketch saying that Slow to Die doesn't protect you from instant death.

[nix]

Took a bit to find it but here is the post:

http://wyrd-games.net/forum/showpost.php?p=210879&postcount=97

I made a mistake, it was Keltheos that answered the ruling.

Bill

[Keltheos]

Correct.

Killed is a state. A model can be killed either by direct killing effects (Headshot), or by its Wd being reduced to 0.

[Wodschow]

they will die, but they still get the action though. unless they are bete noire, then they won't die either.

Not untill she's unburied anyway.. At which point she dies instantly unless she uses another 10+ to bury herself.

Edit: Hmm maybe not, not quite sure how to work that out, technically she haven't resolved the 'killed' effect yet so it should stick untill she unburies..

[MrNybbles]

Not untill she's unburied anyway.. At which point she dies instantly unless she uses another 10+ to bury herself.

Edit: Hmm maybe not, not quite sure how to work that out, technically she haven't resolved the 'killed' effect yet so it should stick untill she unburies..

V2 Bete Noire

(1) One with the Night
(CC: 16/Rst: - /Rg: C) Bury and fully heal this model. It may use Drawn to Death to return to play beginning on the next turn.

It looks like Bete is only healed so a killed effect would still apply after she returns to play. It would be the same as Poison which also would not go away just because she is buried.

[Q'iq'el]

V2 Bete Noire


It looks like Bete is only healed so a killed effect would still apply after she returns to play. It would be the same as Poison which also would not go away just because she is buried.

I don't think there's a "killed" effect per se. Being killed is merely a result of an effect/attack and one of the ways to remove model from play.

Other than that, you may want to check the Slow to Die wording. Technically you execute it "after" being killed (not "during") and before "removing from play", but also if your model is healed at least 1 Wd by the ability used while resolving Slow to Die, it is not killed and remains in play. That would mean a heal (and One with the Night includes a heal) would remove any cause of death, even if it is caused by an effect, rather than wound-related.


As for the OT, I think it's been ruled in the past that paralyzed models "cannot take any type of action" (and their Slow to Die grants a type of action). I don't think the wording of the new rules changed enough to reject that old interpretation.

edit: fixed for more literal quotation of the rules. :)

[Keltheos]

"cannot take any type of Action" is the exact wording from the Rules Manual.

Slow to Die itself isn't an Action, but the (1) it allows you to take sure is.