Casting requirements timing - Rules Manual

[Csonti]

Finally I got my Rules Manual and stumbled into this:

1 - On page 51 under Spell Description it says that additional casting requitrements must be met during the Casting Duel.

2 - But on page 52 under Declare Spell and Target it states that other requirements have to be spent at this phase.

3 - And finally on page 53 under point D it states that additional requirements must be met at this point.

So points 1 and 3 says something and point 2 something totally different.

What am I missing?

[WUWU]

I ran in to the same trouble, but from what I can make of it step 2 refers to any targeting requirements such as Harmless, while the other two steps refer to casting requirements like discarding soulstones or sacrificing a model.

[Csonti]

Bump.

[tenabrae]

I don't think it really matters... either way you look at it you won't spend the additional requirements if you find the spell is invalid (i.e. out of LOS or range) but you will spend it before determining if the spell succeeds.

Once you've determined the spell is valid you're going to have to spend them anyway.

I guess the one time it might matter is if the enemy has counterspell... so fair enough...

[Csonti]

I don't know. As I read point 1. on page 52. I could assume you have to spend the requirements even if your possible target is out of range.

On the other hand I can also translate point 2/d on page 53. in a way that you are not forced to spend say Wd's if you don't want at that point. For example Casting Total is not enough to successfully cast the spell.

Anyway I'm a bit confused about all of this as you see. :)

[LoboStele]

I would definitely say that if your casting total is not enough to cast the spell, then you don't spend the requirements. But that's just partly because I think it should work that way. I'm not 100% convinced the rules support that.

I think it's pretty crappy that if I try to cast Ramos' Construct Spider, and I don't flip the 8 :tomes, that I would still have to discard the scrap counter. Same thing goes with Colette and her two spells which require Soulstones. You'll burn through resources a lot faster. :(

[daemonkin]

I think Ramos is required to discard a scrap counter to construct the spider once the cast is made successfully. Until he successfully casts the 8 :tomes he keeps the counter on him.

ie The requirement is to cast the spell successfully then discard the counter.

D.

[LoboStele]

I think Ramos is required to discard a scrap counter to construct the spider once the cast is made successfully. Until he successfully casts the 8 :tomes he keeps the counter on him.

ie The requirement is to cast the spell successfully then discard the counter.

D.

That's my read as well. The Rules Manual is slightly ambiguous on it however.

I think the same applies to Colette's Discharge Soulstone/Disappearing Act. You would successfully cast the spell, then have to immediately discard the Soulstone. If you determine after this point that the target is out of range, or they make their resist flip, then you are still out the stone. As I said, really hurts Colette, as it pretty much forces you into cheating cards and burning Soulstones for the extra boost anytime you cast those spells, to make sure you aren't wasting SS.

[daemonkin]

Do you guys not pre-measure? Would save a lot of issues.

D.

[LoboStele]

Do you guys not pre-measure? Would save a lot of issues.

D.

I'm sorry, you're right. You declare target and check range BEFORE you do the initial casting flips.

[Keltheos]

I ran in to the same trouble, but from what I can make of it step 2 refers to any targeting requirements such as Harmless, while the other two steps refer to casting requirements like discarding soulstones or sacrificing a model.

This.

[Csonti]

This.
Thx for the clarification but I'd like to add that for me the examples in the brackets are very confusing since suffering Wd or Dg is a typical casting requirement. I guess there are some targeting requirements with this effect but I can't remember a single one.

Mentioning Harmless as an example and putting "targeting" before the word "requirements" would make it more clear. At least for a not native speaker. (Just a tip in case you make a reprint of the book.)

[Csonti]

+1: My confusion was also fueled by the fact that on page 42. point 1. doesn't mention anything about this requirement. It should be there too since those requirements above also must be met during a Strike Duel.