Sabotage Scheme

[Mentat_Canis]

If you announce this Scheme do you also tell them the piece of terrain that you are looking to Sabotage.

[WEiRD sKeTCH]

Need coffee...

[Mentat_Canis]

Um I am asking that when you are in the announcing schemes part of the game if you announce sabotage to you also announce the piece of terrain that you are going to sabotage. I don't see how that pertains to your answer at all.

[WEiRD sKeTCH]

Whoops, wrong thread. Too early yet.

From page 72 of the Rules Manual:
Players must state all details regarding the Scheme including any models or terrain nominated when it is announced.

[Buhallin]

Methinks Sketch might not have had his coffee yet this morning ;)

Rules Manual, Pg 72:
Players must state all details regarding the Scheme including any models or terrain nominated when it is announced.

[Mentat_Canis]

Thanks that's how I have been playing but it says secretly write so thanks. And it is to early.

[magicpockets]

Can we just check sonehin on this as it was brought up in a tourney yesterday. The rules manual says as quoted above, but some schemes say "note" and some say "secretly note" - does the use of the word "secretly" mean anything? Do you only declare all details which are not secret when announcing scheme (iirc as in Stake a Claim) or is the word secret redundant and you announce all details of everything?

Thanks guys, and apologies for the thread necro but thought it made sense to keep it in one thread ;)

[CannonFodder]

Can we just check sonehin on this as it was brought up in a tourney yesterday. The rules manual says as quoted above, but some schemes say "note" and some say "secretly note" - does the use of the word "secretly" mean anything? Do you only declare all details which are not secret when announcing scheme (iirc as in Stake a Claim) or is the word secret redundant and you announce all details of everything?

Thanks guys, and apologies for the thread necro but thought it made sense to keep it in one thread ;)

I agree with the 'secretly' part, otherwise there is no point announcing some schemes. Meanwhile announcing 'framed for murder' scheme with a secretly selected minion has its advantages.

[Q'iq'el]

You note secretly in case you choose not to announce the Scheme. When you announce it, it stops being secret.

[magicpockets]

You note secretly in case you choose not to announce the Scheme. When you announce it, it stops being secret.

This is where the confusion is, if that's the answer what's the difference between "noting" and "noting secretly"? It only makes sense theres a difference if you don't announce secret things but do announce non secret things - although there may be no difference and "secretly" doesn't mean anything. That's what we're looking to be clarified.

[Q'iq'el]

I'd say nothing is hidden from the opponent unless it specifically says so. If you note, your opponent knows what you've noted down (you show him, it's common knowledge). If you note secretly, you show him at the end of the game, or when you chose to announce.

But I'd have to go through all the Strategies and Schemes to see if this holds. >.<

[Drake]

Yeah that's what Magic is seeking to clarify. This came up in the tournament with my scheme, as the difference cost me the game. If I didnt have to reveal, as per the "secret" part of the scheme, my opponent wouldnt have sac'd their model preventing me from killing it.

Most schemes dont say "Secretly note", but you dont have to reveal them to get the 1vp for unannouced. But those that have secretly still have 1 vp for unannounced. So it seems the Secretly must mean you dont declare the target of the scheme, otherwise what is the value of saying secretly?

Sorry for the worded explanation but hope that clarifies our uncertainty..

[Stryder]

The confusion here arises from Extermination and Stake a Claim, which just say 'make a note', not 'secretly note'.

[Drake]

Stryder, no hard feelings about that, the way we played it is the way I thought it worked anyway, totally valid tactic to sac Onryo. If we were wrong about the secretly note bit then fair enough, will just be something to remember for next time.

I am very keen to get a Rules Marshall ruling on this though for future reference.

[WEiRD sKeTCH]

Secretly Note = Note.

It's secret unless you announce.

[Mike3838]

And once you announce, you announce everything. As I suspected :D

Mike

[Drake]

Thanks Wierd, atleast we know the way we played it was correct. Next time I simply wont reveal the scheme!

[magicpockets]

Now not revealing schemes makes sense - I couldn't see the value in it until this thread. Thanks for clearing that up Sketch

[ProdigalPunk]

When the V2 Rules Manuel Comes out can I suggest getting rid of all unneeded words that will only be used to create confusion in a product whose soul purpose is to reduce said confusion?