V2 Stat Card PDFs and Card Replacement Program Information

[Nathan Caroland]

Hey folks,

The wait is over! The V2 PDFs are here, as is the card replacement program!

The replacement program provides those of you “old guard” who have the v1 stat cards an opportunity to get the v2 cards without buying duplicate models or a box of stat cards. “So how will it work?” you say. Between today, January 3, 2011, and March 15, 2011, everyone will have the opportunity to mail in their current v1 stat cards along with a self-addressed, stamped envelope to Wyrd, and we will replace those v1 stat cards with the updated v2 cards. International customers will be able to utilize International Reply Coupons to do the same.
When sending your cards in, please send a corresponding list of the cards you have mailed. That way they can be processed and sent back to you in a more expedient fashion.

If you have a local Henchman, you can contact him or her and hand over your cards to them. The Henchman will take care of it from there. Just be sure to stay in contact with the Henchman for any information.

If you do not have a local Henchman, you can send the cards directly to us here at WYRD HQ in a SASE and we will send along replacements directly to you. Please keep in mind, if it takes you a certain amount of money to mail the cards to us, it will very likely take the same amount to return them. Please place an appropriate amount of stamps on the envelope.

If you have laminated cards, we will take them in as well. Just don't expect them back laminated! Furthermore, we're only accepting v1 cards, not damaged v2 cards you may have. If for some reason your favorite pet decided to get in on the fun as well and tore up your v1 cards, we'll take those as well... as long as they haven't been processed through the digestive system and 'reclaimed'.

Address to mail for replacement cards:

Wyrd Miniatures, LLC
Dept: Road Paved with Good Intentions
300 Townpark Drive Suite 190
Kennesaw, GA. 30144

International Reply Coupon links:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_reply_coupon
https://shop.usps.com/webapp/wcs/sto...derItemDisplay
http://www.royalmail.com/portal/rm/c...diaId=27000662

And last, but most important, PDF links:

www.wyrd-games.net/StatCards/Guildv2.pdf
www.wyrd-games.net/StatCards/Resurrectionistsv2.pdf
www.wyrd-games.net/StatCards/Arcanistsv2.pdf
www.wyrd-games.net/StatCards/Neverbornv2.pdf
www.wyrd-games.net/StatCards/Outcastsv2.pdf

[Mach_5]

Woohoo! Thanks Nathan, and all the hard working folks at Wyrd!


Wyrd Miniatures, LLC
Dept: Road Paved with Good Intentions
166 Towne Lake Parkway
Woodstock, GA. 30188


ROFL!

[WEiRD sKeTCH]

The list will be made available in the morning. :)

[NewbieFromHell]

Great new years gift,

Will be downloading them, and scanning over any changes over the next couple of days.

P.s. Anyone around the Milton Keynes area, let me know as I'll be collecting cards for swap out :)

[tajnisvet]

Yes, yes, yes, and thousand time yes!!!!
Thanks, thanks, thanks and thanks a million!!!
I'm counting 2011 from this sec!!!
Wooohoooo!!!

[Kyran]

just thought i'd let you know ressurectionists link on the main page is buggered, Works from this link though.

[RogueLeader]

Great News and thanks again for the doing this.

Cincinnati, OH players - I will be collecting cards at Art of War if you wish to do the in-store swap. And remember - starting on the 13th is the new Malifaux League!

[Vash Axis]

Thumbs up guys! This is great!

[xxXhayzelXxx]

woooo! thank you soooooo much. I cant imagine how hard you guys must have worked! You guys are amazing! *hugs for everyone*

[brucemanning]

Awesome, I like what I see. Bad Juju is now Hard to wound 2 and only 1 SS for Eternal.

[xGIxJOKERx]

These are great. I noticed the Austringers still have colored Cb but no suit. I'm guessing that they are not supposed to have a suit, right?

[Mach_5]

The coloured stats simply mean there's a trigger associated with it.

[ericski]

These are much appreciated. Plus they print out perfectly at full sheet size too, for those of us who are optically impaired... ;)

[dgraz]

Hands Down - Greatest Gaming Company Ever!!!!
:fest30::You_Rock_:party::You_Rock_:fest30:

[mattraptor]

Good Job!

[Q'iq'el]

Awesome stuff! Thanks in advance for the new cards!

Technical question: How about Limited Edition Minis? I'm a lucky owner of Gremlinette and from what I've seen her card is V1. Should I send it too?

The Miss Pack, fortunately, has the V2 card or so it seems.

[xGIxJOKERx]

The coloured stats simply mean there's a trigger associated with it.
Oh, whoops. I was thinking it was for a suit. Thanks.

[Warpainter]

You guys and gals rock! Thanks!

[Keltheos]

Awesome stuff! Thanks in advance for the new cards!

Technical question: How about Limited Edition Minis? I'm a lucky owner of Gremlinette and from what I've seen her card is V1. Should I send it too?

The Miss Pack, fortunately, has the V2 card or so it seems.

I'm not sure a v2 for Gremlinette was created. Checking.

[Keltheos]

What's that I see on Killjoy? Terrifying...? wink.

[WEiRD sKeTCH]

I'm not sure a v2 for Gremlinette was created. Checking.
There is a V2 Hog Whisperer (Gremlinette) Card.

[Wombats]

Rasputina's Bearskin armour (armor?) ignores damage infliced by...

Want us to run through this for typo's?

Would be a shame if they went to the printers.
You talented buggers really should run a spell checker over those things.

In other news:
Have I ever told you guys how much I love you?

Hint:
Its quite a lot.

[InfamousChicken]

Thank you Wyrd!!!

[Q'iq'el]

There is a V2 Hog Whisperer (Gremlinette) Card.

Excellent! Thanks! :)

[Svenn]

Woohoo! You guys rule! I can't believe you made all the cards available in PDF form, that's crazy.

Trade in program is great, but too much of a hassle for me... I'd rather just pay you a few bucks to get all the new stat cards without having to mail you anything. ;)

[Lalochezia]

I like that swine dash and pig charge are two different abilities.

Very good solution.

And great job all around. :)

[tadaka]

Thanks for makeing the cards and pdf available. Many of the changes that are new and not just wording changes make me scratch my head. Not exactly what I thought was going to be in it.

[Lalochezia]

Thanks for makeing the cards and pdf available. Many of the changes that are new and not just wording changes make me scratch my head. Not exactly what I thought was going to be in it.

Holy crap, the PDFs are filled with lice!

IT'S A TRAP!

[Lord Shaper]

Great idea and thanks for the PDF. I'm going to have to send mine from over here in Australia but when I try to figure out how much the shipping in return would be the links are broken so I don't know how much for the international stamp order thingie...

[syntaxerror]

Hi guys,

I'm new to Malifaux, but I bought a starter pack 2 months ago (Bayou Gremlins)
How do I know if they are v1 or v2?
Does "v2" means that it could exist a v2 core rulebook ?
Should I wait then before buying it ?

Thanks,
syntax

[Shinigami]

thanks wyrd!!!

now i just have to get hold of this postal return thingy...

also,

i love how you snuck in the new guild guard models stat card in the guild card list!

she looks like an awesome sculpt! cant wait for my luciius box to get here! :D

[Deuce]

Hi guys,

I'm new to Malifaux, but I bought a starter pack 2 months ago (Bayou Gremlins)
How do I know if they are v1 or v2?
Does "v2" means that it could exist a v2 core rulebook ?
Should I wait then before buying it ?

Thanks,
syntax

There are no v2 cards for units from Rising Powers. For book 1 units, v2 cards will have a small v2 in the bottom right corner of the side that has the actual stats on it. No v2, it's v1.

[Keltheos]

Hi guys,

I'm new to Malifaux, but I bought a starter pack 2 months ago (Bayou Gremlins)
How do I know if they are v1 or v2?
Does "v2" means that it could exist a v2 core rulebook ?
Should I wait then before buying it ?

Thanks,
syntax

The bottom right corner of the stat card front will have a white v2 showing over the black background. If you don't see it, the card is a v1 card.

For the rulebook question: http://www.wyrd-games.net/forum/showthread.php?t=17172

[syntaxerror]

OK thanks for your answers.
I just downloaded the PDF too.
For the rulebook, I saw the topic after my post, sorry :P

[Math Mathonwy]

Thank you for the pdfs!

Is there a list of what has changed somewhere? Meaning that if I wish to update my v1 cards myself, is there a handy reference on what has changed in a given card?

[MunkeyKungFu]

Nice job guys.

A4 PDFs will work great on demo games :D

[Csonti]

:peace:

[Sholto]

Thanks a lot guys - all the hard work is much appreciated :)

[gru6y]

They finally are here!

Thanks Wyrd!

[Talos]

Thanks Wyrd you guys are awesome.
There are a few models such as Guild Guard and Misaki which have a V2 card but I cant see any changes.
Do all models get a V2 card even if there where no changes ?

[tadaka]

No a number of them are still version 1 cards. A lot of the changes were very minor for example they moved all the paired weapons from the weapon box to abilities.

[yames]

so im looking at the primordial magic and what i thought was going to be changed is not and i dont see any other changes.

his ca says 5 tome and mask but his card back still says 4 tome and mask

so what did change on him?

[LoboStele]

Hooray! As was mentioned earlier in the thread, the link for the Resser cards on the main page announcement isn't working, but it works fine from the forum thread here. Can't wait to pour over them and see what kind of things have changed. Three cheers guys. Well done.

[Tograth]

Hi guys, I was wondering if maybe there is a mistake on the ice pillars spell for Tina in the arcanists pdf. The errata makes the ice pillars RiP until destroyed, but this isnt specified on the v2 stat card at all.

[WEiRD sKeTCH]

The List of Cards is attached to the first post.

Download your lists there!

:)

[Wodschow]

The List of Cards is attached to the first post.

Download your lists there!

:)

That is very useful, thank you very much :D

[LoboStele]

I went straight to Rasputina, since that's my newest master, and I gotta say that the spelling errors are a bit disappointing. 'Inflicted' as mentioned earlier in the post should've been caught be a spell check. And 'Reservoir' is spelled correctly on the back of the card, but is wrong on the front (spelled "resevoir"). Plus the aforementioned missing sentence about whether the Ice Pillars remain in play or not. Would kind of suck if they go away at the Resolve Effects stage, which is the implication now. :(

I know nothing is ever perfect, and I haven't looked at much of anything besides her card, but it's disheartening for that to be the first thing I look at when I know you guys put a lot of time and effort into this. Proof reading is always tough though, so I understand the Ice Pillars thing, as that stuff is easy to look over sometimes. But spell checking? :(

[mythicFOX]

When I download the Neverborn PDF it's coming through corrupt.

Anyone else having this issue?

[LoboStele]

When I download the Neverborn PDF it's coming through corrupt.

Anyone else having this issue?

Um....aren't all Neverborn corrupt? I'm failing to see the problem here. :tongue2:

[Ratty]

Um....aren't all Neverborn corrupt? I'm failing to see the problem here. :tongue2:

If it was the Guild PDF I would agree with your reasoning.

[EricJ]

I double checked the PDFs, seem to all be fine from this end.

[LoboStele]

If it was the Guild PDF I would agree with your reasoning.

True, I'd probably agree on both fronts! :lol:

[mythicFOX]

I double checked the PDFs, seem to all be fine from this end.

Still struggling my end. Hang on I'll switch to IE...

[mythicFOX]

Nope. Same problem.

My download gets to about 550k then stops dead. If I pause and restart the download multiple times I can get the file, but it's corrupted.

Same problem on the other stat cards, but oddly not the book 2 common talents list.

[LoboStele]

Do they all stop at exactly 550 kb? If so, might an issue with your general internet settings, or your Internet Service Provider or something.

[sithkhan]

Thanks for the effort and work, gang. Much appreciated! :D

[mythicFOX]

Do they all stop at exactly 550 kb? If so, might an issue with your general internet settings, or your Internet Service Provider or something.

The different PDFs stop at different places.

As a test I just downloaded the Battle Fleet Gothic rulebook (22mb) in <2min, it opens fine.

[brucemanning]

I've had no probs. I just downloaded the Ressy pdf.

[pugwhan]

No problems here.. I just downloaded all of them.. Thank you Wyrd..

[IronChief]

The different PDFs stop at different places.

As a test I just downloaded the Battle Fleet Gothic rulebook (22mb) in <2min, it opens fine.
I would recommend clearing your cache and deleting all internet temporary files.

[Buck Dog]

I would recommend clearing your cache and deleting all internet temporary files.

.... and considering deleting some of those "speciality" movies that are clogging up your hard drive too :p

[Ratty]

.... and considering deleting some of those "speciality" movies that are clogging up your hard drive too :p

Santa Claus Conquers the Martians is not a speciality movie.

[Kreation]

great stuff! :)

Any chance we'd ever see PDFs of all the cards? I love being able to print them larger...easier on this old man's eyes. :P

And yes, I'd definitely pay for them.

Thanks for being awesome!

[Keltheos]

Santa Claus Conquers the Martians is not a speciality movie.


Has midgets = specialty.

[tadaka]

Wyrd Miniatures, LLC
Dept: Road Paved with Good Intentions
166 Towne Lake Parkway
Woodstock, GA. 30188

Ok that was funny :)

[tadaka]

Is it safe to send in v2 cards that have changed to this new version.

For example Steampunk arachnid swarm was changed to remove its name for self repair and the wording on self destruction has changed as well from "Kill this model. Models suffer 3 DG. Place one Scrap Counter instead of 2.

I am not sure if more of the v2 cards have changed but I noticed this one and there may be more out there.

[xGIxJOKERx]

Is there any way we can buy some extra cards and get them thrown in with our replacements? $8 shipping is a little steep for $1 worth of extra cards.

[WEiRD sKeTCH]

Is there any way we can buy some extra cards and get them thrown in with our replacements? $8 shipping is a little steep for $1 worth of extra cards.
That doesn't equate with replacement. Also, a different department handles the redemption than the Webstore.

So that's, sadly a no.

[xGIxJOKERx]

Oh well, it was worth a shot.

[Charlie24601]

So what department do we contact for a new card? (I'm new here)

[WEiRD sKeTCH]

So what department do we contact for a new card? (I'm new here)
Click the Online Store link at the top of the page.

[elril]

So any card listed in the PDF, if your card doesn't have the V2 we should send it in, correct? Or is there some cards where it doesn't matter?

[WEiRD sKeTCH]

So any card listed in the PDF, if your card doesn't have the V2 we should send it in, correct? Or is there some cards where it doesn't matter?
Attached to the first post of this thread, there is a doc file that has the list of cards that are available for exchange.

[elril]

Thanks Sketch, I missed that as it was in a box and my mind registered "part of signature". Anyways, so some had V2 made despite no changes being made, or "no significant changes were made".

[Keltheos]

Correct.

Some had formatting shifts, etc. that do not affect the rules on the card but still qualify as a change to the card (hence a v2).

[Justicator]

Guild .pdf seems to have changed. I would swear the file I downloaded at home on Monday had more pages, like the Guild Guard, but the file I downloaded at work on Tuesday did not.

[13th Warrior]

Not sure if this is the right place, or whether it should be in the Rules Discussion, but according to the Guild v2 card list, "Shrug Off" has been clarified.

Erm, not to me it hasn't (this is from Francisco's card, the others are similar):

Discard 1 Counter or end 1 effect on this model + 1 effect or Counter per :rams in the casting total. Wounds on the model or Counters carried by the model cannot be discarded(emphasis mine)

So, can I discard a counter or not? And if I can't discard a counter Francisco's carrying, which counters can he discard?

:dontknow:

[ericski]

Guild .pdf seems to have changed. I would swear the file I downloaded at home on Monday had more pages, like the Guild Guard, but the file I downloaded at work on Tuesday did not.

It appears that way. The one I printed off today had 19 pages. The one I have here at home is 26 pages.

[Ratty]

Not sure if this is the right place, or whether it should be in the Rules Discussion, but according to the Guild v2 card list, "Shrug Off" has been clarified.

Erm, not to me it hasn't (this is from Francisco's card, the others are similar):

Discard 1 Counter or end 1 effect on this model + 1 effect or Counter per :rams in the casting total. Wounds on the model or Counters carried by the model cannot be discarded(emphasis mine)

So, can I discard a counter or not? And if I can't discard a counter Francisco's carrying, which counters can he discard?

:dontknow:

He can discard any counter that is not carried. There are not many of them at the moment all I can really think of are Poison, Blight & Burning.

[tadaka]

I have a version 2 card for the steampunk swarm. The PDF one has a couple of changes over my v2 card. Can my version 2 be sent in for an updated version 2?

[WEiRD sKeTCH]

Guild .pdf seems to have changed. I would swear the file I downloaded at home on Monday had more pages, like the Guild Guard, but the file I downloaded at work on Tuesday did not.
That's because any Card that did not have a V2 card was removed.

[WEiRD sKeTCH]

I have a version 2 card for the steampunk swarm. The PDF one has a couple of changes over my v2 card. Can my version 2 be sent in for an updated version 2?
The Swarm difference is a minor cosmetic difference. If you feel it's absolutely necessary to exchange the card to match the PDF, make sure you add a note in your envelope.

[tadaka]

Thanks Sketch, removal of the swarm name means hoffman can copy. Will keep me from having to keap eratta for the model.

[LoboStele]

Thanks Sketch, removal of the swarm name means hoffman can copy. Will keep me from having to keap eratta for the model.

Oooh, on Self Repair....interesting. I'll have to check mine when I get home.

[tadaka]

Oooh, on Self Repair....interesting. I'll have to check mine when I get home.


Ya i was not trying to be a pain for wyrd the simple change does effect how useful this model is for The Hoff. I am excited as hell that the new cards and rule book means we can dump the eratta for a wile it will be great.

[Chucklemonkey]

Not sure how I managed to miss this till now.

Thanks to all involved!

[Hogwart]

Well, I mailed in my V1 cards today. I didn't realize I had so many. It took two small manilla envelopes. Thanks so much for doing this. Wyrd is awesome.

[tibour]

Excellent and Thanks to all at Wyrd for the hard work and great product. I only have 5 cards that need fixing 2 are v1 3 are some of the errors that got away :) They will be going out in the morning mail. I just wanted to say thank you for the outstanding system and standing behind your product with outstanding customer support.:1:

[Lord Shaper]

Handed mine into a Henchman today at a tournament. I can't wait to get the new ones!

[Parzival]

Not quite sure where to ask so I just put my question here.

Is it a little mistake or is Johan really not unique anymore? Would be looking forward playing 2 Johans for 10 SS in my Vic crew in the future... ;)

[Wodschow]

Not quite sure where to ask so I just put my question here.

Is it a little mistake or is Johan really not unique anymore? Would be looking forward playing 2 Johans for 10 SS in my Vic crew in the future... ;)

Eh.. He is O_o

They just moved it to below his SS cost.

It's the same deal with every other Unique character.. I wonder why you were only puzzled by Johan xD

[Parzival]

Ah, my bad!

I just wanted so bad to have another MS&U Member for my Vics, didn't look that closely at the other mercs... ^^

[Silas Cordell]

What's the turnaround time going to be on these? If I get mine mailed out on Monday (01/10) from New Hampshire, can I be sure I'll have them back in time for Templecon (02/03), or am I better off carting around the errata and waiting until after the convention to swap mine?

I love that you guys at Wyrd are doing this, but I'd like to be sure I'll have cards for my tournament.

[Nathan Caroland]

At the moment, a one day turn around, but if the volume comes in more than anticipated, can take a day or two longer I suspect.

[Silas Cordell]

One day? I am stunned and in awe. You guys are awesome.

[Melvis]

Where is the card for the student of conflict?

[Ratty]

Where is the card for the student of conflict?

It didn't need one as it hasn't been updated.

[Clousseau]

At the moment, a one day turn around, but if the volume comes in more than anticipated, can take a day or two longer I suspect.
As I'm collecting on behalf of a number of UK clubs I won't hold you to that as we'll be well into the hundreds of cards :ahhhhh:

[Nathan Caroland]

Zee who is in charge of the redemption program, among other things, has made it a point for fast turn around - I suspect they'll go in just about as quick as they come in.

[MrNybbles]

I checked this thread to see if any of these issues have been addressed by Wyrd yet.

The entry for the Victorias says "Viktorias - “Fates Entwined” was clarified. The V2 Card needs an enter keyed after “Sisters”." Does this mean that the V2 with the words run together is the correct version or that it is a misprint eligible for a replacement?

Bishop has a misprint where :melee was added to his Knockout spell on the inside of his card, but not on the front summery of the card. Will we be able to get a corrected V2 if we mail him in, or will we need to wait for the next group of updated cards?

yames is correct about Primordial Magic having a mismatch of what its casting is (http://wyrd-games.net/forum/showpost.php?p=193460&postcount=42). Mine has the same issue. Will a V2 card be available or will we need to wait for the next group of updates?

I'm kinda expecting that except for the Victorias the rest will be updated sometime in the future.

32 cards are the current version.
26 cards have confirmed replacements.
2 Victoria cards with V2 formatting error. (I need to know this before mailing my cards in).

[Cpeerson]

Quick question, what if we order models online from another source and we get V1 cards after the March date is there gonna be a way to upgrade to the V2 Cards?

[Sholto]

I printed a load of the PDFs out last night (4 to an A4 sheet) and then laminated them. The size is different to the Wyrd cards, but it works fine, and the type is small, but can be read without difficulty. That'll keep me going while I send my V1 cards away.

[Zee]

Hey folks, Zee here. Just wanted to stop by to let you know that I take care of your Redemptions within 24 hours of receiving them.

Coz I love every single one of you. Very very much...



In the creepiest way possible.

Zee

[Lord Shaper]

Hey folks, Zee here. Just wanted to stop by to let you know that I take care of your Redemptions within 24 hours of receiving them.

Coz I love every single one of you. Very very much...



In the creepiest way possible.

Zee

You know that's the way we like it Zee...

BTW are you going to accept the challenge of Nix from The Gamers Lounge?

[Zee]

What challenge?

[WEiRD sKeTCH]

When sending your cards in, please send a corresponding list of the cards you have mailed. That way they can be processed and sent back to you in a more expedient fashion.

[nix]

What challenge?

Pay no attention to the podcast-listeners behind the curtain Zee.
:loco:

[Huronbh]

What podcast listeners? :peep:


-jay

[Lord Shaper]

Pay no attention to the podcast-listeners behind the curtain Zee.
:loco:


What podcast listeners? :peep:


-jay

That's right I stopped being a listener didn't I heh

[daemonkin]

Sorry if this has been asked before but...

Is there a comprehensive list of which models/cards will be V2? I'm slightly confused by the PDFs supplied on the homepage as they don't contain all the models for each range.

Example:
There is no Enslaved Nephilim in the Guild PDF. Does this mean:
a) The enslaved nephilim has no changes and requires no V2 card?
b) Only cards in the released V2 PDFs require changing?
c) If I send in all my cards Wyrd will replace them all with V2 equivalents?
d) All subsequent models bought will automatically be labelled as V2?

Hope to get some clarifications here.

D.

[WEiRD sKeTCH]

Sorry if this has been asked before but...

Is there a comprehensive list of which models/cards will be V2? I'm slightly confused by the PDFs supplied on the homepage as they don't contain all the models for each range.

Example:
There is no Enslaved Nephilim in the Guild PDF. Does this mean:
a) The enslaved nephilim has no changes and requires no V2 card?
b) Only cards in the released V2 PDFs require changing?
c) If I send in all my cards Wyrd will replace them all with V2 equivalents?
d) All subsequent models bought will automatically be labelled as V2?

Hope to get some clarifications here.

D.
There's a doc file in the first post of this thread that is the list of cards. Perhaps you missed it?

[daemonkin]

Ah...

Cheers WEiRD! I am no longer groping in the dark.

D.

[daemonkin]

Follow up question for 5 points:

What if I send in my cards for redemption then buy more from an independent retailer which require updating to V2? Should I just hold on til near the expiry date of the offer?

D.

[WEiRD sKeTCH]

Follow up question for 5 points:

What if I send in my cards for redemption then buy more from an independent retailer which require updating to V2? Should I just hold on til near the expiry date of the offer?

D.
That's a question that you should probably answer yourself. We can't make that kind of decision for you.

[daemonkin]

Cheers. I take it you guys have been shipping with V2 cards for a while now?

D.

[Owen Ojo De Lobo]

Ok, at last I can say something here... what a week...

Thanks, Wyrd! I'm grouping all the Spanish cards to send to you... :D Zee, you will have a lot of work! :D

[Zee]

Cheers. I take it you guys have been shipping with V2 cards for a while now?

D.

Since last Wednesday!


Ok, at last I can say something here... what a week...

Thanks, Wyrd! I'm grouping all the Spanish cards to send to you... :D Zee, you will have a lot of work! :D

Aiyayai!

Zee

[lbd]

Excellent move guys :) You show a lot of heart. Please don't loose it as you continue to grow...like some other companies...

Edit*
Just went through the list and I want to clarify before sending:
A few say "no significant changes were made. V2 cards were made"
I assume this means not to send in these cards but then why were v2 cards made?

[MrNybbles]

Just went through the list and I want to clarify before sending:
A few say "no significant changes were made. V2 cards were made"
I assume this means not to send in these cards but then why were v2 cards made?

I have a few cards like these and they have minor changes that don't effect the rules. For example the Malifaux Child's weapon was changed from "Paired Daggers" to Dagger and "Weapon, Dagger: Paired" was added to his Abilities.

He works 100% the same, they just seem to be moving the word Paired out of the weapon name and into the Abilities section with all new cards.

[Stanislav]

With the list in the first post, it states that if there were cards made, to send yours in along with your others for replacement.

However, it it says no changes or whatever and v2 cards were NOT made...you keep those.

[lbd]

Right on, just wanted to make sure and I was curious what would be different about a v2 card with no significant changes.

[Ratty]

Right on, just wanted to make sure and I was curious what would be different about a v2 card with no significant changes.

I would check your cards against the PDF. The Hanged are almost identical, just the order of the skills is slightly different. The Grave Spirit however has had the wording on Link changed quite a bit.

[tibour]

I just wanted to say thanks to all at Wyrd. I received my new cards today. Outstanding job to all and keep up the good work.

[elril]

Mine are going into the mail, hope I have enough stamps on it...

[Zee]

It has just come to our attention that the Leveticus Cards we had in house were incorrect ones, and we are rectifying the situation.

If your Leveticus card has a V2 on it, it is incorrect. It should say V3 on the card. ONLY Leveticus has this issue; none of the other cards will have any problems.

If anyone receives a package from us with the wrong Leveticus Card, please Email me with your name and address as well as the number of Leveticus cards you received that were incorrect at Zee@wyrd-games.net

Thank you.

Zee

[Vlad the Mad]

Took some time, but I'm about to send in my cards. One last question:

The word file says that "No V2 cards were made" for Guild Guard. As the Guild Guard cards from the blister and the one from the Lucius box have a small difference (the ram is greyed out in the Halt! trigger of the box model), I am wondering if these cards are eligible for redemption?

Keep up the good work!

[daemonkin]

^^ Would be interested to know about this too since I just bought Lucius and have a blister of Guild Guards also.

D.

[derv]

Primordial Magic says that no V2 cards were made. The card I have has ca5 :tomes :masks on the outside page but the inside page says ca4 :tomes :masks

Has this been fixed at all?

[WEiRD sKeTCH]

The card front is the correct stat.

[Vlad the Mad]

Took some time, but I'm about to send in my cards. One last question:

The word file says that "No V2 cards were made" for Guild Guard. As the Guild Guard cards from the blister and the one from the Lucius box have a small difference (the ram is greyed out in the Halt! trigger of the box model), I am wondering if these cards are eligible for redemption?

I'd appreciate a quick "yes-no" answer to this one as I'm itching to send in a whole bunch of cards. Thanks upfront!

[Zee]

@ Vlad: Nope.

[Zee]

For people sending us International Redemptions: Please ensure that you put the right amount of International Mailing Coupons on/in the package. As it stands, we have been shorted several times. We have ponied up so far, but if this happens any more, we will be returning the envelopes to sender without any redemptions.

Remember, the right amount of postage means no issues or delays with your redemptions.

Zee

ps. US players, some of you have shorted us as well. The same applies here as well.

[Vlad the Mad]

@Zee

Thanks for the quick reply. I'll be sending my cards tomorrow, with plenty of IMCs included.

[studderingdave]

sorry if this was covered, but are there going to be a release of the new cards, like faction decks?

[nilus]

sorry if this was covered, but are there going to be a release of the new cards, like faction decks?

You can buy any cards you need from the online store for 50 cents each. There have not been any faction decks announced and I would not hold my breath for them based on what has been said.

[Bienivrai]

@Zee,
I did receive my replacement cards today, thanks for that. However, my 3 incorrect v2 crooked men cards were sent back to me without the correct v2 version. Did I miss something ? According to the doc file on this thread and v2resurrectionninst pdf, I did send the incorrect v2. My cards say:"Place 1 Shafted marker within 6” of this model. When a model ends its activation within 2” of a Shafted marker, remove the marker and the model’s controller flips a Fate Card..."
Thanks

[paradox]

Just got my v2 cards this weekend. Now they are all nice and laminated and ready to go!

Thanks Wyrd!

Now I just need to finish painting....

[XCoconutMonkey6X]

About how long are you guys waiting for your cards to return? Just curious as to when my cards might arrive.

[WEiRD sKeTCH]

When did you send them?

[XCoconutMonkey6X]

it's been about 2 weeks now

*Edit* - Course I did send back a whole bunch of cards (42 total, I think).

[Bienivrai]

Mine came back in less than a week

[Cthulu.]

Any Henchmen in the Puget Sound area?

[XCoconutMonkey6X]

Yea, at the time of writing, my cards were sitting in my mailbox waiting for me, lol. Thanks Wyrd!!

[2TheDeath]

I'm trying to send some cards from South Wales in the UK.
Sending is ok but paying for the postage for it to be returned is proving to be a bit of a minefield & very expensive.

Are there any Henchman in the UK that can help out?

Dazz :twitch:

[2TheDeath]

Thanks for getting in touch David:D

[Clousseau]

Thanks for getting in touch David:D
My pleasure.

[derv]

15 days from posting my cards from the UK until they arrived back again. 157 cards and not a single mistake - even send back in little packages for each player so I don't have to sort through them.

Massive thanks to Wyrd (to Zee in particular!), you are doing a superb job.

[Vlad the Mad]

21 days from Japan and back. Thanks a lot!

However, I noticed one interesting misprint on my Rotten Belle card - instead of "Grimy Parasol" it says "Grimy Parasik". Made me google for possible meanings of the word "parasik". :embarasse

[Dumb Luck]

Ah sorry 2TheDeath! I'm a Henchperson in that area!

My LGS store wants to know if they can get cards to replace the cards that are in V1 blisters. Naturally, he can't look through all of them to find out what is what - what can be done about this? Should I just add them to my order?

[Deathjester]

I'm trying to send some cards from South Wales in the UK.
Sending is ok but paying for the postage for it to be returned is proving to be a bit of a minefield & very expensive.

Are there any Henchman in the UK that can help out?

Dazz :twitch:

Yeh just sent my cards off and the international reply coupon thing is a bit of a gamble. Just hope I sent enough. Dirt cheap to send the cards out though ;-)

[DarkCrisis]

Been almost 2 weeks and I'm only a couple of states over! You are killing me here, need meh cards!

[nilus]

Been almost 2 weeks and I'm only a couple of states over! You are killing me here, need meh cards!

They just moved warehouses so things are a little backed up.

[Willnox]

Thank you so much for doing this...never seen a gaming miniature company do something like this for it's customers...you guys/gals rock!

[SteveinNYC]

Which address are we supposed to send our cards to? THe first post of this thread says:

300 Townpark Drive Suite 190
Kennesaw, GA. 30144

But the announcement on Wyrd's site (http://wyrd-games.net/node/104) says:

166 Towne Lake Parkway
Woodstock, GA. 30188

So, which one?

[Deathjester]

I hope its the latter, as thats where I sent mine ????

[LoboStele]

They just moved warehouses, so I suspect one of those addresses is the old place. So, hopefully mail forwarding and such will take care of it. Might be worth sending Zee a quick PM though, to make sure you're sending to the right place, or so that he pops into this thread to update it as necessary.

[Nathan Caroland]

300 Townpark Drive Suite 190
Kennesaw, GA. 30144

We've updated it now, thanks for catching it.

[Deathjester]

Oops mine just gone 4 days ago to old address. Had to let Zee know, so hope it will all be fine *fingers crossed*

[WEiRD sKeTCH]

It should be fine. Forwarding services are in effect.

[SteveinNYC]

Thanks!

[DarkCrisis]

Please come today! I have a game this evening and using printouts and the books stinks! ;)

[Bioshock13]

Thank all of you so much. I've not seen any other company take the initiative like this. You guys are doing a wonderful job. Way tro support the community.

[Zee]

Since today is 3/15, the deadline for the redemption, I'm posting a quick headsup. We will process any orders we have received or will receive that are postmarked by 3/18/11.

We have some redemptions left in house, so those of you wondering whether you are going to get them; you will. We are plugging through them as fast as we can, and sending them out the door as soon as possible.

Thanks for everyone's patience.

Zee

[Deathjester]

Cheers for the update Zee. All efforts have been greatly appreciated I am sure.

[XCoconutMonkey6X]

Yea, thanks so much for doing this! Awesome job all around

[Cadilon]

Thanks for the few extra days. They are needed and appreciated!

[Chucklemonkey]

Thanks for the update, I think (and hope) I am one of those currently with cards with you so appreciate the info.

[MTox]

Thank you all so much for taking the time and effort to truly take care of us. It is so greatly appreciated.

[Darguth]

Got my Som'er and Nicodem crews' cards last night, took about 2 weeks and I was sending it from Michigan.

I really appreciate the hand-written note included with it too, in response to my own. Awesome work Wyrd, and I really truly do appreciate the effort you're all putting forward to try and stabilize the game and make it the best possible.

[deadboy]

Big thanks to Zee, Nathan, and the rest of the crew for making this happen. Great job all!

[Scorpio]

Since today is 3/15, the deadline for the redemption, I'm posting a quick headsup. We will process any orders we have received or will receive that are postmarked by 3/18/11.

Oh thank heavens, I *just* remembered today and hopped online to bemoan my fate.

Again, kudos for the quality customer service.

[InfamousChicken]

With all that's going on, what is the current turnaround? I sent mine in on 3/11 and I was wondering when I might expect them back.
Or if they got lost in the mail...

[Nathan Caroland]

zee@wyrd-games.net

Thread isn't going to get individual attention.

We've got a load of them that arrived at the end of last week as folks realized the dates apparently, can expect to see them going out end of this week, start of next.

[InfamousChicken]

Thank you!

[Cadilon]

Any chance that there could be a V2 card exchange at GenCon?

I was relying on the PDFs, but since they aren't allowed in official play now...

[WEiRD sKeTCH]

Any chance that there could be a V2 card exchange at GenCon?

I was relying on the PDFs, but since they aren't allowed in official play now...
No.

The exchange is done. If you do not have the correct cards (available on the online store), then you'll not be able to participate in any official Wyrd run events.

[Nathan Caroland]

Any chance that there could be a V2 card exchange at GenCon?

I was relying on the PDFs, but since they aren't allowed in official play now...

As Drew said above, but quite bluntly it comes down to time and man power, its nightmare and costly enough doing so with folks sending in and taking care of it from there, adding our largest convention into the mix, just no way for it to happen in a coordinated manner.

[trebormills]

as a UK resident postage can be an annoying factor... i need one card which is 50 cents, but postage is $10...thats an outrageous cost for 1 card.


Reverse this ruling, not being able to use printouts is stupid and pointless. Just rule everyone has to have the up to date card (printed or offical), v2 or 3 or 4 etc. Its not like you guys are missing out...ive bought the mini from you already. Insisting on offical cards just makes more work for you guys in the office. If i have a wyrd printed card you still have to check if its the correct one so pdf print vs official doesnt really save any time.

ps
I 100% agree with no proxies for tournies in regard to the metal bits

pps
offer tournie packs with all the correct cards in, if something is suspect just whip out your pdf printout to compare to the players copy...cheaters get kicked off the tournie...simples

[Q'iq'el]

Reverse this ruling, not being able to use printouts is stupid and pointless.

Tournaments are about the only place where not being able to use printouts makes a lot of sense. Adding an extra wound or upping a stat or two may go entirely unnoticed, if all players relay on is a printout. People have cheated worse than that.


As far as shipping cost goes, just add the card to another order. Good thing about Wyrd's Online Store is that shipping rate is flat and already below typical US rates (why shipping in the US is so crazy expensive?). I understand wanting to support your local store, but an online order every once in a while isn't going to ruin them, is it?

[Wodschow]

Well hmm.. I decided not to use the exchange program since I figured I'd just use print-outs instead, so a bit miffed due to that.

But here's what I'll do:
If they make this years eventual Gencon-only releases available on the net (which I hope they do), then I'll just order all my cards along with those.
Hell I'll have to get my rulebooks asap anyway, so even if there's no SE figures that's what I'll be doing.

[trebormills]

Im sorry but I just dont see the beef with printouts...

I have v2 sorrows cards so Im good? Well no cos I discovered after posting yesterday that my v2 sorrows are wrong according to the pdf...it has the wrong stats so I need new v2 (shouldnt they be v3??) cards.

So if I go to a tournie they need to check my card is correct anyway, wether its official or not. Also youll need to check if I have v1, v2 or v3 cards to make sure my cards are up to date...does it really add much more time if its a print out rather than an official card??

TO's just need the latest cards as a pdf...print them out and just check them vs the cards used by the player. Problem re cheats solved! Also as I mentioned elsewhere we are getting older and those cards are tiny I like the idea of blowing them up to make them easy to read and also easy to laminate and use dry markers on.

If this was MtG then I could understand but this is a minatures game not a card game....

Im sorry if im a bit ranty but I really think this is stupid. Wyrd now have to stock extra cards and ship them and all that hassle when they could just issue a pdf update and everyone is happy (of course some people will chip in they hate printing stuff, so whatever).

[daemonkin]

@Woodschow: Great idea. May have to do just that as I forgot the end date for the offer. $0.50 each card is a low amount for the number of cards I need.

D.

[Andy_B]

The exchange is done. If you do not have the correct cards (available on the online store), then you'll not be able to participate in any official Wyrd run events.

I'm sorry but this reply stinks.

Without us, the customers and supporters of your product, you don't have a business. To dismiss someones question in this manner is unacceptable. We've bought your rules (twice, not to mention the errata the first time around) we've bought your miniatures (even though some of the cards were wrong even after being upated to V2) and we support what you are doing because we love the game.

To turn around and say what you did really amounts to "its my ball and your not playing!".

If you really feel this strongly about $0.50 cards then at least have the professionalism to get them right.

I for one won't participate in any Offical Wyrd Tournaments in the UK based upon your stance on this. If this is how you address a small item like the difference between a home printed and manufactured card then I dread to think how you would handle a tournment anyway.

I would also like to hear from the rest of the Wyrd team as to their stance on this reply to your very loyal customers.

Andy.

[Steak_N_Fries]

So if I were to go out now and buy a Malifaux mini at my FLGS, would I find the V2 card in the package or is it more likely that the old cards are still there and would need to be replaced?

Are there any sets/models that I would be guaranteed to get the V2 cards (ie do Rising Powers crews all have updated cards while initial releases have V1)?

I've been waiting for all of this V2 versus V1/ new rules stuff to settle before getting into Malifaux and and wondering if that time has come.

[Andy_B]

This is the problem Steak_N_Fries ... no-one knows.

Depending upon the turnover of stock at you FLGS they may have old V1 cards (although probably not). However even some of the V2 cards have changed (confusingly still called v2) so until you reference them to this site you wont know.

Thats why if you could print off and use the official Wyrd PDF versions this wouldn't still be rumbling on. If you just intend to play locally just buy what you want and dont worry about it. If you do want to play in Wyrd Tournaments then good luck and I hope your cards are correct.

I can only speak from my experience but Colettes crew are still on v1 so they will be up to date.


Andy.

[nilus]

I will add my two cents here

1) Right now the only official tourney that Wyrd runs is at Gencon(this could of course change and I suspect it will grow). Local tourneys still are at the discretion of the TO, so they have a lot of leeway when it comes to these rules.

2) Shipping isn't cheap for just cards but its easier if you spread it out. So what I suggest is when someone in your gaming group is ordering from Wyrd directly, if others need cards you pull your funds and do one large order. The best person to bug about this is your local Henchman since he is probably going to redeem his soulstone comp at some point anyways (and needs to pay shipping).

3) As a suggestion to Wyrd. Could there be an option in the online store for a cheaper shipping rate for just card orders. Say X number of cards can be shipping via USPS flat rate(or media Mail) for 2 or 3 dollars(instead of 8).

[Q'iq'el]

How do other companies handle this though? Do they allow printouts? Warmachine/Hordes use cards with their minis, right? Can you print out them, or do you have to buy an official deck to update from the old to the new version?


Somehow I have a very hard time imagining a company allowing non-official cards at their tournaments.



So if I go to a tournie they need to check my card is correct anyway, wether its official or not. Also youll need to check if I have v1, v2 or v3 cards to make sure my cards are up to date...does it really add much more time if its a print out rather than an official card??

A Tournament is basically glorified club game most of the time - understaffed, ran by volunteers and the ticket money barely covers the prizes and the cost of the room/tables.

Those people organize an event for you, and you basically propose they should increase their workload even further, because some people couldn't be bothered to use a free replacement program that ran for several months?

And by the way, the verification system you propose is absolutely useless. Once you allow people to use printed cards, you also need to stamp or mark them, or the cheaters will swap them for "improved" cards right after the control... Ink has to be permanent, so it will ruin the cards, laminated or not - so now you have to require everyone to use PDF printouts, but there are no PDFs for all the cards out there... and the people will still swap the cards hoping the opponents don't notice the cards are not stamped.

I've replaced my cards from Japan - I was an early adopter as far as Malifaux goes and I had to replace almost everything I had. It cost me some 8$ and about 3 weeks wait. I doubt it is any harder to do the same from UK or any other European country (I suspect it is much easier, actually).


I think there are only 2 valid points to be made here:

- Wyrd could have been more clear only official materials would be allowed in the future. It has kind of been obvious for old hands I think (after all the same policy applied to model conversions, proxies created when original models have been unavailable etc.), but I suppose it wasn't obvious enough to newer players or people ignoring the forums.

- Wyrd could offer v2 "faction decks" with all the cards inside, for a sensible price. Only because such a product could actually be distributed by local gaming stores. It would be a useful product to replace worn-off cards or lost ones.


Criticizing Wyrd for requiring the original cards at the official events is misplaced though. Not only it isn't hard to obtain the cards, but the free replacement program ran for several months and was truly world-wide - something you simply don't get from other manufacturers.

[Elazar]

Criticizing Wyrd for requiring the original cards at the official events is misplaced though. Not only it isn't hard to obtain the cards, but the free replacement program ran for several months and was truly world-wide - something you simply don't get from other manufacturers.

Totally agree with this with one exception. These tournament rules have been in the works. When Wyrd provided the pdf with the v2 cards as an alternative it's a shame they didn't share that nugget of information. In my case, I have the v3 Leveticus card but the one in the pdf is technically v4 as they fixed an error on the first v3 (I have the one with the error). Seeing as it was one card and it'd take weeks and weeks for the replacement of my card I figured it was easier to print it out and laminate that. I'm unlikely to attend an official event in the UK but I'm guessing I'm not alone in the world in having assumed that by providing the pdf Wyrd were allowing us to use it... the free Redemption was great but it'd have been nice for people to know that they had to use it and even more than that it'd have been nice if people were kept in the loop about changes on v2 cards and Levi's v3 card. If you got the cards and assumed they were correct because they have the right v number in the corner it's a kicker to find they're not and you can't use them when you go to a tournament. How many will find this on the day they go to Gencon and get their cards checked?

[Andy_B]

2) Shipping isn't cheap for just cards but its easier if you spread it out. So what I suggest is when someone in your gaming group is ordering from Wyrd directly, if others need cards you pull your funds and do one large order. The best person to bug about this is your local Henchman since he is probably going to redeem his soulstone comp at some point anyways (and needs to pay shipping).

Nilus,

This is fine in the US but anywhere else its false economy.
Here in the UK we have distributers who offer discount off the RRP. They also have free shipping.

Therefore we wouldn't use the Wyrd shop directly. We also dont have a local Henchman so thats another option not available to us.

I can see why its been requested and dont have an issue with the ruling itself. My issue comes because there have been so many errors in the cards and some have had to be replaced multiple times , the costs to ship outside of the US, the fact that Wyrd provide the PDF's in the first place and the timing of the announcment all add up to this being a badly handled situation.

Andy.

[trebormills]

firstly
in the uk you can still buy stuff with v1 cards so a free card service that is now finished isnt much help
secondly
a free pdf was released, why bother if you gonna rule only official cards can be used. I thought i was buying minatures not a card game
thirdly
i have v2 cards but they are wrong...so even with official cards im still stuffed. TO's will need to check this...do i have the right v2 card.
fourth
Why are the wrong v2 cards not replaced by v3 cards?
fith
checking official cards are correct vs checking cards in general doesnt really make much difference in time
sixth
shipping to uk is $10, got it from wyrd store. So thats $10+ 50 cents per card to resolve any wrong cards
seven
The issue with it being an "official ruling" is that many TO's will use that as a template for club based tournies.

being clearer up front and offering faction decks would have helped with disappointment.

[Ratty]

seven
The issue with it being an "official ruling" is that many TO's will use that as a template for club based tournies.


I think you are wrong here. Most club based tournies will be based around the club members, just as most LGS tournies will be based around the group of players they have.

For Example If you have a lot of new players you will probably go with faction Pool or Fixed Master tournaments to give everyone a fair chance. A lot of clubs will allow unpainted miniatures. The Gaining Ground Document has 3 different scoring system, 4 or 5 ways of choosing Strategies, 6 or 7 different ways of choosing your crew. Only the Official Wyrd Format doesn't allow printouts, unpainted models and proxies. There might be only a couple of official tournaments a year in the UK. And even then it will be the UK Henchmen that are organising them and we will try to make things reasonable for the players.

[Absolution Black]

But is the $10 shipping irrespective of how many cards you order? It seems very steep and I would agree it is unacceptable if you had to pay postage for EVERY individual card you ordered!

But $10 split between 4 or 5 people is not a lot. And if you can order as many cards for that shipping, it isn't too bad either.

The problem is that it seems the announcement regarding only official cards in tournies, should have been announced BEFORE the redemption scheme.

I need to check my cards asap but if it turns out I need new ones, I would be willing to go in on an order with other UK based gamers to reduce individual costs.

[Andy_B]

I need to check my cards asap but if it turns out I need new ones, I would be willing to go in on an order with other UK based gamers to reduce individual costs.

This is fine and I'd guess thats what most will do.

My gripe is that some cards have changed 3 times in almost as many months. How many more times will they change every year?

The comment about other companies not allowing unoffical stuff is right but do they change their card decks every 3 months or once per year? I dont mind paying for the latest updated card - the cost is very low - and by combining shipping with friends this keeps down the cost further however will we be expected to do this all again when book 3 comes out and then again when there is a mistake on the v3 cards and then......

Andy.

[trebormills]

Ratty and Absolution...you make fair and good points

I think the real beef is as you say the timing of the announcements...im sure my other rants cover any other greivence i have.

[Absolution Black]

This is fine and I'd guess thats what most will do.

My gripe is that some cards have changed 3 times in almost as many months. How many more times will they change every year?

The comment about other companies not allowing unoffical stuff is right but do they change their card decks every 3 months or once per year? I dont mind paying for the latest updated card - the cost is very low - and by combining shipping with friends this keeps down the cost further however will we be expected to do this all again when book 3 comes out and then again when there is a mistake on the v3 cards and then......

Andy.

I understand perfectly. Who says all the stats and cards are going to be right first time when book 3 is released? I guess all we can do is hope they have been playtested thoroughly and any problems ironed out before printing.

I never hold out much hope with this from past experience (GW) but I hope Wyrd can pull the almost impossible off!

Either that or have a system in place by then that will allow any problems to be dealt with efficiently!

[Absolution Black]

Ratty and Absolution...you make fair and good points

I think the real beef is as you say the timing of the announcements...im sure my other rants cover any other greivence i have.

And I don't disagree with all your points! ;)

I will agree it seems to be a timing issue! All the other problems have resulted as a knock on effect. But everyone makes mistakes, me especially, so I'm not going to knock Wyrd for this. Yes, it may be inconvenient, but there are far worse things happening in the world. :(

[trebormills]

How do other companies handle this though? Do they allow printouts? Warmachine/Hordes use cards with their minis, right? Can you print out them, or do you have to buy an official deck to update from the old to the new version?

The offical steam roller rules from PP for Warmahordes are a bit vague re this...they spend a lot of time on minis and modifying them etc but skims over the cards

quoted bits:
Player Responsibilities

Logistics
Players participating in a Steamroller 2011 (SR2011) event must bring all their own models, stat cards, dice, measuring devices, tokens, markers, and templates they require for play. The Tournament Organizer (TO) must approve any printed media used to track damage. Players should also bring a copy of the SR2011 scenario reference sheet for use during the tournament.
Army Lists
Players must bring two printed or legibly handwritten copies of all their army lists complete with point costs and army point totals. Players should check with the TO before the event begins on any rules questions they think may arise based on their armies.

Modeling and Painting
All models used in Privateer Press organized play events must be Privateer Press miniatures from the WARMACHINE or HORDES ranges. Every miniature must be fully assembled on the appropriately-sized base for which the model was designed. Any non–Privateer Press models,unassembled miniatures, or inappropriately based models are not permitted.

[Buhallin]

Well, given that Privateer never had any option for printed cards, at all, it seems pretty clear on what their stance is. Most of the list builders for Warmachine would print damage tracks, but I don't know anyone who didn't use the stat cards for informational reference during games.

Yes, there will undoubtedly be errata which don't make it into the cards, and there will be more changes. That's just the nature of the game. They cannot print new cards every time there's a change to an ability - it's a wonderful thought, but it's just not realistic. That leaves them two options - outdated cards, or broken abilities remaining in the game.

Personally, I'll deal with the outdated cards.

[trebormills]

v2 card clarification from Wyrd is excellent news....

thanks for update guys

[Malifauxcurr]

Ok, so I realized I dropped the ball on getting the free upgrades. That's on me. Is there any chance that at an event like Gencon I could purchase faction sets? Much like I did at Gencon a few years ago when I bought the cards in the first place? That way in a case like mine, where I have a metric $$$$$$$$load of cards to replace, I could at least purchase them in a more cost effective manner?

[nilus]

You can order them from the online store now. Eric has also mentioned a way to buy card packs in would be available in the future.

[Bleeding Through]

Today I recieved Lucius boxed set as well as a Guild Guard blister. Now quick question the guild guard with the box has a grey ram but the normal blister guild guard have it blacked out. Which is right?

[Ratty]

Grey just means that you have it in the related stat. So if you look at the related stat and it has a Ram then it should be grey, if it doesn't it should be black... The Guard only has a Ram on it's Pistol Cb so "HALT!" is the only ability that should be grey.

[James.]

I bought a pack of Silurids and when they arrived today they only had V1 cards in. I've haxed up some new backs for them using the online pdf thingy, but obviously not everyone can do this, and really I shouldn't have too.

Isn't there some way the cards can be sent to distributors so they can slip them in with orders to avoid this happening? The replacement scheme was ideal, but without it there's the possibility of having to order cards + rather high postage with every blister I purchase.

Surely the distributors could get in touch with Wyrd, or vise versa, and however many packs of product they currently hold could have cards issued for them just in case?

This would be a bit of a pain, I understand that, but surely it would only need to happen once as products being shipped to them from now surely have the current cards inside.

James.

[Nathan Caroland]

The cards have been switched out since August of last year with distributors and with the turn rate and reorder rate on them, I can pretty much guarantee that distributors don't have old v1 cards, and there were actually several that we changed out wholesale late last year so that all product still on hand were updated.

Retailers and older product unfortunately I can't say the same, though we did change out a fair number who have contacted us, or had Henchmen do it for them with their local swap outs.

[Elazar]

The cards have been switched out since August of last year with distributors and with the turn rate and reorder rate on them, I can pretty much guarantee that distributors don't have old v1 cards, and there were actually several that we changed out wholesale late last year so that all product still on hand were updated.

Retailers and older product unfortunately I can't say the same, though we did change out a fair number who have contacted us, or had Henchmen do it for them with their local swap outs.

Well I don't know about elsewhere but we're still getting plenty of v1 cards over here in the UK. The crew boxes are usually ok now but the blisters are something of a lottery. It just seems a little unfair that the redemption would end and this old stock is in circulation and so to have the new stuff we have two choices:

1. Pay the shipping costs plus the costs of new cards to get these replaced.
2. Print the cards from the pdf.

The first option means the customer is paying to fix something that you're saying has already been fixed but really hasn't been over here it seems. The second option would be good but if Wyrd decide to host any official tournaments, or indeed if TOs over here decide to go by Wyrd's rules on these in the future then its not actually an option.

Rock and a hard place, which isn't very fair on the customers spending their hard earned cash on your products :(

[James.]

The cards have been switched out since August of last year with distributors and with the turn rate and reorder rate on them, I can pretty much guarantee that distributors don't have old v1 cards, and there were actually several that we changed out wholesale late last year so that all product still on hand were updated.

Retailers and older product unfortunately I can't say the same, though we did change out a fair number who have contacted us, or had Henchmen do it for them with their local swap outs.

Apologies. Replace the word "distributor" with "retailer" in my post. I think I came accross the wrong way, the guys who distribute the product to me are the guys I was talking about, so yeah Retailers.

So as above my idea, but with the retailers.

Sorry for the mix up.

James.

[Ciaran]

The second option would be good but if Wyrd decide to host any official tournaments, or indeed if TOs over here decide to go by Wyrd's rules on these in the future then its not actually an option.


Eric pointed out that TO's should be keeping their community's situation in mind when applying this ruling. I believe the UK was specifically mentioned for this reason.

Down the road when we have the option of purchasing card sets at retailers this might not be an issue. I could see your concern for the moment, and am confident that anyone organizing an official tournament in your area would keep that in mind.

[Elazar]

Eric pointed out that TO's should be keeping their community's situation in mind when applying this ruling. I believe the UK was specifically mentioned for this reason.

Down the road when we have the option of purchasing card sets at retailers this might not be an issue. I could see your concern for the moment, and am confident that anyone organizing an official tournament in your area would keep that in mind.

This is all very well and good but it shouldn't be up to TOs to have to allow for the mistakes that Wyrd are making... Having outdated product in stores and not offering the customer any solution other than spending more of their own money isn't good customer service. In fact it's shoddy. Wyrd do customer interaction very well, the guys on here seem like genuinely decent people. Their customer service though is sub-par and that's sadly across the board.

This is essentially the equivalent of making the customer pay for the errata to a rulebook/army book/etc. Could you imagine the uproar if GW for example said "We've written the errata and FAQ for the ***** codex. It's available to customers for $10.50. You can print it out but that will not be acceptable if you want to play in tournaments. We made these mistakes and have now fixed them. You, our customer, can pay for them."

This also still doesn't account for the fact that some v2 cards are incorrect. That I know of the Sorrows and Leveticus have two versions of their v2 and v3 cards, respectively, in circulation. Why is this the case and why should a customer who purchases the product, sees that they have the most recent card then have to pay for replacements when they later spot that actually their cards are incorrect and replacements were just snuck out without a word to the community..?

[tadaka]

Overall wyrd has great customer service. When I started warmachine they told me sorry buy a deck when I got some version 1 cards. Wyrd has at least given players a free copy of the updated cards in the form of PDF and had a replacement program they ran for mutiple months. When players have been vocal and said hey this is BS on a number of issues they have come back to us and try to make it right. They are not perfect but they try damn hard.

[Elazar]

Just that Privateer Press are worse doesn't make Wyrd good though...
They did offer a solution. Temporarily. They've since removed that solution. Released a product that made the official v2 cards compulsory, a change they could have warned us about when they gave us what turned out to be a pointless pdf, and out-dated products continue to be sold. It should never be at the customer's cost to replace stock that is incorrect in any way.

As for their great customer service I'm afraid I'm not 100% convinced. It's the little things that make a huge difference in this arena. When replacement parts requests are finally answered for example you receive the item you require but would it put Wyrd out to include a compliments slip or some such in that jiffy bag just apologising for the error? No. I don't expect perfection, but, if Wyrd want to be a competitive company they have to get their customer service right. It's something that the company currently on the top of the pile very often gets right. I don't think it's a coincidence that they sitting pretty there as a result...

[Keltheos]

This is essentially the equivalent of making the customer pay for the errata to a rulebook/army book/etc. Could you imagine the uproar if GW for example said "We've written the errata and FAQ for the ***** codex. It's available to customers for $10.50. You can print it out but that will not be acceptable if you want to play in tournaments. We made these mistakes and have now fixed them. You, our customer, can pay for them."


Actually, GW waits 3-5 years, posts a fraction of the errata and clarifications they should in their online FAQ/Errata during that time, and then rereleases the product in an updated edition for about $120 assuming rules and codex (that's if your codex is scheduled for this year. Otherwise it could be up to 6 years before you get the 'update' for your list) and typically make some or all of your army obsolete. And, magically, with each edition 'wash' errata disappears.

Sorry, had to go there as a longtime GW customer.

[Elazar]

Actually, GW waits 3-5 years, posts a fraction of the errata and clarifications they should in their online FAQ/Errata during that time, and then rereleases the product in an updated edition for about $120 assuming rules and codex (that's if your codex is scheduled for this year. Otherwise it could be up to 6 years before you get the 'update' for your list) and typically make some or all of your army obsolete.

Sorry, had to go there as a longtime GW customer.

They might not be the most responsive but they don't make customers pay for the Errata... they also don't make customers wait 3-5 years for them, that's a massive exaggeration. They don't catch all of the rules errors but there are plenty of unanswered questions in the Rules Discussion forums on here so it's clearly just the nature of the beast at times. Yes, they do re-release products and updated rules but we've just seen Wyrd do the same for that so it's not really a good argument. Sure Wyrd might have gotten to the first re-release of the rules faster but is that neccessarily a race you want to win..? It was a race that had to be run because the previous errata and rules changes had become too much of a mess that the game was difficult for beginners to find their way in.

All the arguments so far are that some companies are worse. Is that really how Wyrd want to sell themselves? "Not as bad as the other guys..."

[Keltheos]

I'm not debating the two practices, but GW isn't exactly the best model for how to handle errata and faq releases. And I would beg to differ they do make you pay for the errata, just in the form of an edition reset every few years.

[Ratty]

Not to mention with GW, how every new rulebook needs a huge errata as soon as it comes out, it will normally take at least 6 months to get one, when it does get one it won't deal with 30% of the issues. I alse haven't see a Core Rulebook (which now cost upwards of £35) not break 2 or 3 armies badly. Eg 5th Ed 40k messed up Necrons really badly, and they still haven't been fixed 2-3 years on.

Wyrds mini rulebook was necessary, they may be a new company but there were a lot of things that needed a bit of clarifying, and it wasn't the easiest game for a new player to get into. The fact is that they did it in a small rulebook that was easy to carry and didn't charge you upward of £35. Even if the 2 rulebooks were perfect I would still probably have wanted a small rulebook. It's so much easier to go out for a night gaming with a pouch of cards and a small rulebook than with both large rulebooks, though I still find myself going back to them at home when I want to look at new models or see what a crew does.

Also most notably it doesn't take up as much room on the table, I can normally get all my cards, Soulstones, corpse counter and the rulebook into the 6" strip I normally have on my side of the table. With the big rulebooks they normally ended up under the table. And I used to have to route around when I needed to look up a rule.

[Elazar]

But none of this has anything to do with the fact that we're getting v1 cards despite guarantees that there are none any more and then having to pay for the v2. GW may not be the best model but that is still just pointing at the others and saying they're not very good either.
I have no problem with the products Ratty. That's why I spend my money on them... my issue is that you then instantly are expected to spend more money to correct the error in the product and I don't think that's a good business practice or fair on the customer. What the others do here is irrelevant, but something they don't do is charge for the errata that fixes some of the problems. They charge for the new edition sure, but so do Wyrd. It doesn't matter whether the book is big or small or easy to transport etc. What matters is that the customer is gettng the product they are paying for. Which, when you get v1 cards in a new pack cannot be described as the case!
Also, Wyrd didn't fix 100% of the rules problems with v2 or the new Rules Manual. So that comparison falls very much short. As I've said, I don't expect perfection but I also don't expect to pay for it whilst Wyrd experiment with the rules until they get them right...

[tadaka]

"But none of this has anything to do with the fact that we're getting v1 cards despite guarantees that there are none any more and then having to pay for the v2."

When did they say no one will ever run in to old product. No company can say that. They dont know when every box has been bought off every shelf.

There is a current set of rules available for free off the site. They extended the deadline for us and ran the offer for months. When they said you have to have the cards we said hey thats not cool and they said ok we will put the rule on hold untill we get decks out there. If you want the actual cards you can buy them. They are going to offer the decks the comunity asked for. They have jumped through a lot of hoops trying to make this right for us.

[Elazar]

Well Nathan guarantees that the distributors have no v1 cards any more yet the retailers here are restocking and lo and behold there are v1 cards amongst the blisters.

I sill don't see it as a charitable thing to allow me to get the up to date product for the cost of $10.50. That's certainly not Wyrd jumping through hoops either. It doesn't cost $10 to ship a card to the UK for example... That line will run out the tired excuse of "Well buy more stuff from the store then..." But I shouldn't have to.

If a piece of the miniature is missing you expect to get a replacement sent out. Why when the correct rules that you've paid for are missing shouldn't the minimum expectation be the same?

[James.]

Ok, I'll admit, they have changed a word or two here and there to help out over things like having to have the real v2 cards at a tourny. However, this isn't why I brought all this up.

I brought it up because I think it's unfair to have to buy the models, which come with the cards, and then have to spend more money to get the cards which are currently up to date.

So if someone wants to argue the point, does anyone wish to quote this next line:

"It is unfair to buy a product, then incur a hidden cost to effectively use that product."

And tell me I'm wrong. I don't mean quote it and make some funny little twist to say "GW are worse!" or whatever. I just plain mean that single line.

I'm not even really annoyed about having to fix the cards in the first place, but you know what does annoy me?

We have a lot of players at our local club who are either younger, or through some circumstance don't have a lot of cash to spend. When they ask me whether or not they should play malifaux, my instant reaction is yes, because it's a damned good game. However, as I'm not the only one at our club to have had old v1 cards, I now also have to warn them that they may end up with old cards when buying blister packs.

If you were selling this product and you had a potential customer, would you like them to hear the line "When you buy stuff, you might have to spend more money than you had planned to get the rules to make it work, even though you already should have them when you buy it"?

I say these things, not out of hate for Wyrd, I don't think they're an uber corporation out to get the world or anything. I applaud Wyrd and its staff for their public interraction and general good naturedness. I've wrote this because I really love Malifaux as a game, and I'd like to be able to say nothing but good about it when someone comes and asks my honest opinion about it.

James.

[Wodschow]

I don't get why Wyrd is getting all this.. I really don't.

What exactly do the people complaining about the possibility of receiving a V1 card expect Wyrd to do about it? - Run their exchange program forever? Yeah well, I think that's way too much to ask of them (was very suprised when I saw them doing it in the first place, as I've never seen anything like it before from other companies) - and even then people would probably still complain about the shipping cost like they did when the program did run.

The 'no-printouts' was an anti-cheating countermeasure, not a 'you must spend more money' thing, that'd be ridicolous as you already have the correct miniatures - which should be more than sufficiently proof.

And again, those are the official rules - used at official events - where you could probably buy new statcards anyway (don't quote me on this though as I'm just guessing).

Take it up with your local TOs, I'm sure most would be fine with print-outs, if nothing else you could watermark them for the tournament.

It really is not that big kind of a deal as some people in here seem to try to make of it..

[James.]

What exactly do the people complaining about the possibility of receiving a V1 card expect Wyrd to do about it?

Sell me the product without incurring an aditional hidden cost to use the miniature in the most up to date way.

Wyrd are not "getting all this". This is customer feedback, this is how a business learns from its mistakes. Surely customer feedback is a good thing?

Not all of us are going to write endless fanboi comments all day every single day, that is counter productive surely?

If all you hear about is how great you are, are you going to grow as a company? No. If you get honest feedback from customers that want to see the company grow to be even better than they already are then that's supposed to be a good thing. Many companies pay a LOT of money on surveys and so on to find this kind of thing out, here the information is free and readily available. I think Wyrd will be happy to have the feedback.

I hope I've presented my complaint in a constructive way, I haven't gone running to warseer or dakka to make a huge thread to flame Wyrd, I've brought it to their attention politely on their own forums through respect for them.

This is NOT about the tournies, once again read my post to understand that, I asked if anyone could disagree with one statement and not twist it to become something else.

Liken it to a new pc. If you bought a new pc and it had windows 98 installed would you be happy? If then you were told "Hey it's ok, just buy the latest windows and everythings good" would that be a good solution? No, it would not.

I expect growing pains and so on with any ruleset for any game ever, I do not expect to be the one who has to spend money on it though and that is the problem. I already spend more than enough money on Wyrd minis and books without having to spend more on cards and their postage when I'm supposed to get them with the minis I've bought.

James.

[tadaka]

"It is unfair to buy a product, then incur a hidden cost to effectively use that product."



My pizza box does not come with pizza cutter but it is sure as hell a hidden cost. Have you tried to eat one of those things with out one. Man what a mess.

On a more serious note.I fully understand what you are saying but the rules are 100% available for every card that is not right on the the page they are yours to take. You can effectivly use the product. If they had not printed the V2 cards at all you would just print off the errata and had no issue with it.

[James.]

My pizza box does not come with pizza cutter but it is sure as hell a hidden cost. Have you tried to eat one of those things with out one. Man what a mess.

In England they cut the Pizza for us, maybe you should start and ask :P

I agree if the errata had come out then there wouldn't be an issue. However, that's not the format they've chosen for their game, and because of that we have this problem.

It's not a major problem, it's just a little gripe. I mainly posted yesterday, not to start a flame war or anything, but to bring it to the attention of Wyrd, who have a strong company presence on the website. I think it's a fair and just thing.

One of the main reasons I want the official cards for example, is the same reason I'd buy an official dice set for a faction in other games, or why I buy the fate deck with the right colour on it (even if I only ever use the puppet deck anyway!): Because I'm a wargamer, and part of the collection issues we wargamers have is that we want all the right stuff for our beloved little minis! :D

So I know there's the online pdf, but I don't want that, I want the latest up to date shiney card for my minis! I expect that to already be in my blister :)

James.

[tadaka]

I 100% agree and thats why we yelled at wyrd untill they said ok we will make decks. I realy do understand your opinon on this. I have also had issues with the card program but they have given us a number of options now.

Your take and bake pizza's come sliced? Damn I live in the wrong place :P

[James.]

I 100% agree and thats why we yelled at wyrd untill they said ok we will make decks. I realy do understand your opinon on this. I have also had issues with the card program but they have given us a number of options now.

Your take and bake pizza's come sliced? Damn I live in the wrong place :P

Take and bake are the ones you bring home frozen? Ahh no, unfortunately I have to use a knife for that one :(

I suppose you could do it Calzone and just fold it to eat it, messy though! :D

James.

[Ratty]

don't you just gnaw on the edge of the pizza till it's all gone.. what's this slice thing you talk of.

[James.]

I can haz no rat teeth with which to nibbles :(

James.

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

Sell me the product without incurring an aditional hidden cost to use the miniature in the most up to date way.

Wyrd are not "getting all this". This is customer feedback, this is how a business learns from its mistakes. Surely customer feedback is a good thing?


Coming from a business perspective and knowing it isn't the best customer service but it is the most cost effective for long term growth.

I have a product out with a minor part missing, almost dismal in cost. I know this part is going to be missing or need replacement on a regular basis. part is cheap but cost of shipping is 4 times or more cost. There is also the labor cost of handling part replacement, a cost too small to hire one person, but enough to burden another's work.

The question becomes how do we deal with this cost? A few answers: Do we incur all these extra costs knowing as time goes on that it may get a bit to unpredectable? Spread the cost to the consumer as long as we can keep it minimal? Do we do periodic part replacement when new part is released?

If we incur extra expenses we will likely need a pricing over hull to help manage.

This is a rudimentary view point but is an important one. "Hidden cost" means an expense for someone, consumer or company.

My stand on the issue is in the middle I don't mind paying for new rules or new cards as long as it is priced reasonably, I believe $.50 a card is not bad, $15 for rule book fair. What I don't like is paying exaggerated shipping costs. $8 to ship cards sucks. If they could lower the cost down for just cards to say just $2 state side (I don't know what would be fair to UK or abroad) I wouldn't hesitate to update my v1 cards like I am doing right now.

[LoboStele]

My stand on the issue is in the middle I don't mind paying for new rules or new cards as long as it is priced reasonably, I believe $.50 a card is not bad, $15 for rule book fair. What I don't like is paying exaggerated shipping costs. $8 to ship cards sucks. If they could lower the cost down for just cards to say just $2 state side (I don't know what would be fair to UK or abroad) I wouldn't hesitate to update my v1 cards like I am doing right now.

Wyrd also has to keep things simple for themselves though too.

If they make it $2 for shipping cards, does that apply to just one card? So you pay $2 for every card you order? If it applies to multiple cards, then what happens when somebody tries to order 50 cards at once? Would it still be $2 shipping? Now Wyrd is likely losing money on the shipping.

No, they are keeping with a system that is the most simple for them. $8 flat rate shipping in the US, $10 international. Honestly, I can't remember the last time I saw a company with international shipping rates that cheap. And even $8 for inside the US is pretty impressive.

And so, they do this to keep their own workload further reduced. If you only want to pay $2 shipping to replace your cards, then find 3-4 other friends who also want to purchase something, or need cards, or whatever, and go in together to split the shipping costs.

The more we press Wyrd into doing things to satisfy the customer, which in the end cost Wyrd more money, that will just get turned around and passed onto us, the customers, anyways, in the form of higher costs for miniatures and books in the future.

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

I agree quantity is an issue that I didn't address in my post because I was keeping it simple.

Honestly most companies have different shipping costs. If I order a huge order it could cost them more to ship and they eat the cost. They already face that risk and are ok with that. I am merely pointing out a compromise.

I understand the while find friends but that is am impractical suggestion. I may have to do so every time I buy a boxset from a retailer who has old stock? Soon I will run out of friend because I buy more. Also I want to support my local lgs when I can but not at a 20% mark up. 40 for box 10.50 for card replacement. I know wyrd wants me to support my lgs. Retail is key to success in this industry. I can buy online and reduce risk but that would be at cost of my lgs. Also lgs for wyrd means more exposure where online retail doesn't offer that kind exposure.

[Buhallin]

Obviously, the solution to all this is just to stop giving us stat cards.

That's really at the core of all this, it seems. By providing that handy reference, Wyrd gave us something that needed to be updated to stay current with rules changes that are just a fact of life in this hobby. No cards, nothing physical to update, BAM! Problem solved.

Clearly they just need to stop with the extra bits for player convenience, and their customer service problems would pretty much vanish.

[LoboStele]

I agree quantity is an issue that I didn't address in my post because I was keeping it simple.

Honestly most companies have different shipping costs. If I order a huge order it could cost them more to ship and they eat the cost. They already face that risk and are ok with that. I am merely pointing out a compromise.

I understand the while find friends but that is am impractical suggestion. I may have to do so every time I buy a boxset from a retailer who has old stock? Soon I will run out of friend because I buy more. Also I want to support my local lgs when I can but not at a 20% mark up. 40 for box 10.50 for card replacement. I know wyrd wants me to support my lgs. Retail is key to success in this industry. I can buy online and reduce risk but that would be at cost of my lgs. Also lgs for wyrd means more exposure where online retail doesn't offer that kind exposure.

Then simply wait until the Faction Decks are made available. Wyrd has already stated that the rule for using V2 cards in official tournaments will not apply until after the faction decks are released (not to mention that I can't imagine most local T.O.'s being THAT picky). So, buy what models you want, and if you end up with old cards, just print out the PDF for right now and buy the faction deck in a few months whenever they are made available. I can't imagine it will take Wyrd that long to offer those, as the cards are already available.

[James.]

Obviously, the solution to all this is just to stop giving us stat cards.

That's really at the core of all this, it seems. By providing that handy reference, Wyrd gave us something that needed to be updated to stay current with rules changes that are just a fact of life in this hobby. No cards, nothing physical to update, BAM! Problem solved.

Clearly they just need to stop with the extra bits for player convenience, and their customer service problems would pretty much vanish.

Indeed. As a child when I would play football, I always thought that a dispute with friends could easily be solved by taking my ball away and just not letting them play at all.

James.

[Andy_B]

The thing I'm having difficulty with is why some people are so forcefully defending Wyrd as a company.

The facts as I see them are:

1. We need the latest V2/3 cards in order to play the game. If you have the wrong cards your either putting yourself or your opponent at a disadvantage. We cant use the Malifaux or Rising Powers books as reference as so much has changed on the stats so the suggestion to just remove the cards as these are the cause of the trouble is ludicrous.

2. Wyrd have the cards - or retailers do not. Therefore in certain circumstances people will get packs with out of date cards. As James suggested why can't a few packs of latest edition cards be shipped out via distributers with their next orders. I'm sure if Wyrd covered the cost of the cards (which in the grand scheme of customer satisfaction is small) then at least we'd know that by buying a new mini we'd always get the latest card.

3. The tournament issue is no longer an issue. What is an issue is that cards have been updated from V2 to V2 amended and V3 to V3 amended and unless you comb this forum page by page you can quite easily miss that there is a change.

If a card is changed because of poor proof reading that should be updated at Wyrds cost - no question.

If a card is changed because the rule isn't exactly clear or a model is over/under powered then why can't this be just sat on until there is a list of changes and do one mass change on an annual basis. I'm sure no one would complain at purchasing cards for an annual update.

In no other industry would customers willingly fork out to pay for the manufacturers mistakes/updates and not expect customers to be unhappy.

Andy.

[LoboStele]

If a card is changed because the rule isn't exactly clear or a model is over/under powered then why can't this be just sat on until there is a list of changes and do one mass change on an annual basis. I'm sure no one would complain at purchasing cards for an annual update.

Um.....this IS what happened. They slowly rolled out Errata and other updates throughout the fall. Then they offered a time period when everybody could get their cards updated, whether it was minor changes or major ones.

I think at this point, the only reason people are complaining is that the free exchange period just ended, and they are feeling the burden of having to purchase the correct cards instead.

To me, this is a rather silly position to take at the moment. Before the V2 cards were available at all, we all would have taken our V1 cards, and then printed off the Errata. Now, you can still do this. Use your V1 card and print off the PDF for the cards, which are right there on the left side of the screen.

Secondly, Wyrd has ALREADY STATED that they are going to make faction decks available. Give them a break guys, and let them have some time to implement said plan. Sending out faction decks right now to distributors/retailers, is exactly what they JUST DID with the Card Redemption program. Yes, some places may not have taken advantage of that program, and that's the danger you face. But again, it shouldn't make THAT much difference - see paragraph above.

And honestly, the V2/V3 to slightly different V2/V3 is really not an issue at all, IMO. So far, any time where that sort of change happened, it was incredibly small changes, like bolding an ability, or clarify a word here or there. For instance, look at the V1 and V2 Viktorias cards. There's no Errata that actually makes them play differently. It's just a clarification of the wording, which ultimately has little to no impact on how you actually play the game.

Most of us played the game perfectly fine with our V1 cards. Only in very rare situations will it actually be a problem, or a huge deficit to play V1 cards when your opponent is running V2. For the large majority of cases, you would hardly notice the difference.

All of that said, I would certainly support Wyrd offering a yearly 'exchange program' or something, where there is a set time each year where you could get cards swapped out as necessary. This way, you would know that since this year's has passed already, you just have to wait till next year instead OR pay the shipping costs if you want the new cards sooner.

[Buhallin]

Indeed. As a child when I would play football, I always thought that a dispute with friends could easily be solved by taking my ball away and just not letting them play at all.
Aaaah, I see what you did there! ;)

But seriously - more than one person has touted GW's not requiring you to update anything because it's all available as paper. You yourself said "Sell me the product without incurring an aditional hidden cost to use the miniature in the most up to date way."

Getting rid of stat cards completely fixes the problem. They aren't necessary to play - they're a convenience. Many games seem to get by requiring you to have a rulebook to flip through mid-game to reference stuff, and then provide printouts with errata that you have to check. Doing it that way certainly removes the "hidden cost".

I continue to be baffled at the outrage over this. At some point, as good as anyone else in the industry HAS to qualify as good customer service. Doesn't it? Let me run down some others I can think of to compare:

GW: Closest they have to a reference is the Battle Magic decks, which you buy separately. Anyone want to take bets on whether they'll offer free tradeins when a spell gets errata'ed? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller??
PP: Provide reference cards, and make you buy new ones when they change
Infinity: No reference cards at all (Right? Don't play, but can't find anything)
MERCS: Cards are absolutely required to play, they're sold separately
Spartan: Potentially the only one I know of who beats Wyrd here, mainly because they provide almost everything via PDF anyway

So it seems Wyrd matches up to pretty much anyone out there. Would their customer service be better if they let you register online and sent you new stat cards for free every time there was any sort of change, with Nathan hand-delivering them to you personally along with a mint to leave on your pillow while he's there? Sure. But at the point when "Hey, you errata'ed some stats, I think you should give us the new cards for free plus an extra gift as an apology" is your standard, the problem is not the level of service Wyrd is providing.

[Ciaran]

James, that's odd, a lot of us are having a hard time understanding why some people are so antagonistic regarding Wyrd as a business.

The rest of this isn't directed towards you, it's the conversation at large.

I'm sure year six of Games Workshop was very different from where they are now. I recall them from childhood, and though the memories are admittedly a little hazy, I recall it not being all that easy to deal with.

I'll have to ask some of my friends that played in the Rogue Trader games what that was like with some more specific questions. It should be easy as most of them play Malifaux now.

There's been a lot of discussion regarding support for games in the shop I work weekends at. It seems a lot of long time customers of other companies are leaving, or shrinking their support for those companies. Both the large UK company and the larger US company are driving customers away. I guess it's just an issue of who you prefer.

[WEiRD sKeTCH]

This conversation has come full circle more than once. It's time to put this demon to sleep.