EricJ - US Games Day Project

[EricJ]

Hi All, I brought this up in a thread a couple weeks ago, but I'm working on my Games Day entries for 2006, and while I suppose there are reasons to keep it secretive, that's just not me, I like painting in a community rather than scheming alone at my desk! :D It is all probably 6+ months away, but why not start early right?

So the point of this thread is to develop ideas, get feed back on WIPs, and decide on final entries. My goal is to have at least 6 entries, and I very much appreciate any help anyone here is willing to offer! I will continue to edit this first post with the status of each entry posting first the current leading idea, then the most recent WIPs or the photo of the finished piece when it is.

Categories:

Fantasy Single:

This is hopeful, as it is not confirmed at the moment his fate due to his upcoming auction

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v491/EricJ/Painting/Works-of-Heart-Elf-GT.jpg

Fantasy Monster:

This is confirmed!!! I got word 20 minutes ago that the winner of the Paint Aid auction will allow me to borrow the tyrant back in order to compete in a GD

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v491/EricJ/Painting/Paint-Aid-Tyrant-post.jpg

Fantasy Squad

Currently no ideas

40k Single

I have the option of entering Him (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v491/EricJ/Painting/Inquisitorweb.jpg)

But his paint job is already a year old, and in this tough catagory may not hold up. I think I can definately do better now.

40k Vehicle

I would like to do a highly converted Penitent Engine, I have looked at bits and pieces to add to this, I think this will be one of my ealier efforts in this project

40k Squad

Well I have 2 options of squads already completed The Retinue (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v491/EricJ/Painting/InquisitorRetinueweb.jpg) or The Sisters (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v491/EricJ/Painting/Dominionsquadweb.jpg)

Do you think either of these would work? and which better? or should I look to upgrade this entry. I'm inclided to go with one of these since this is very time consuming catagory and my time might be better spent elsewere.

Duel

I sort of have this idea brewing about a duel on top of a tower between a Ultramarines Librarian and winged hive tyrant. The other idea I had was was with the penitent engine a a squad of Kroot...well all the squad but one killed, but the last one driving a dagger through the heart of the driver. Then I would need a new vehicle entry

Lotr

At first I in this catagory I thought I'd do something simple, a single figure just to get something done, then looking at the figures (and the lack of females in the range) I started thinking about Eowen, and envising her facing off with the witch king, which suddenly makes it a huge project, lol. I'm not sure how this catagory will be run, I think perhaps I'll start with Eowen and go from there...

Again, feedback is more than welcomed, I'll do my best to keep this thread updated. And if enough people dislike this idea, I'm happy to take it down as well (well, not happy, but i'll understand)

[grimeygames]

These look AWESOME!

One question...whats a Gnoblar?

[Nathan Caroland]

Fantasy Single:

This is hopeful, as it is not confirmed at the moment his fate due to his upcoming auction

The Elf will win you something in my opinion.


Fantasy Monster:

This is confirmed!!! I got word 20 minutes ago that the winner of the Paint Aid auction will allow me to borrow the tyrant back in order to compete in a GD

Of course he would - you win a GD with that bugger and its price goes through the roof and more importantly, this guy has bragging rights. Lucky bugger. Again, I think this one will win you something.


Fantasy Squad

Go with your strengths. You like 'pretty' things for the most part I've noticed. The new Wood Elves would probably be right up your alley, though granted, people may be tired of looking at them by then. Dark Elves also might do it for you.

40k Single

I have the option of entering Him (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v491/EricJ/Painting/Inquisitorweb.jpg)

But his paint job is already a year old, and in this tough catagory may not hold up. I think I can definately do better now.

Not up to your standard honestly, though he might place a bronze if you decided to go with him. Go with something that is a crowd pleaser - Space Marines seem to do it and I'm sure something suitable can be found. Maybe bugger Scibor for one of his new Black Templars or something (or do one yourself). Might not be 'legal' though and I wouldn't know.

40k Vehicle

I would like to do a highly converted Penitent Engine, I have looked at bits and pieces to add to this, I think this will be one of my ealier efforts in this project

Good choice. Lots of fiddly bits, nice piece though.

40k Squad

Well I have 2 options of squads already completed The Retinue (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v491/EricJ/Painting/InquisitorRetinueweb.jpg) or The Sisters (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v491/EricJ/Painting/Dominionsquadweb.jpg)

Do you think either of these would work? and which better? or should I look to upgrade this entry. I'm inclided to go with one of these since this is very time consuming catagory and my time might be better spent elsewere.

Can you only enter one? If not, I would enter both of them, though I think the Retinue is the better one and honestly, would probably win you something as it is. Very nice piece. If neither of these do it for you, personally I would go with the Sisters Repentia or something like that - they just appeal to me.


Duel

I sort of have this idea brewing about a duel on top of a tower between a Ultramarines Librarian and winged hive tyrant. The other idea I had was was with the penitent engine a a squad of Kroot...well all the squad but one killed, but the last one driving a dagger through the heart of the driver. Then I would need a new vehicle entry

Neat idea - time consuming as all hell I would think, but points for originality.

Lotr

At first I in this catagory I thought I'd do something simple, a single figure just to get something done, then looking at the figures (and the lack of females in the range) I started thinking about Eowen, and envising her facing off with the witch king, which suddenly makes it a huge project, lol. I'm not sure how this catagory will be run, I think perhaps I'll start with Eowen and go from there...

Again, feedback is more than welcomed, I'll do my best to keep this thread updated. And if enough people dislike this idea, I'm happy to take it down as well (well, not happy, but i'll understand)

Hate the LotR stuff but an entry is an entry. Radagast the Brown is a nice miniature.




:)

[Duende]

One question...whats a Gnoblar?

They're the little goblin-ish critters that hang out with the Ogres. Mostly just do the menial tasks but some are fighters. Here's some fluff from the GW site:

"The larger members of Gnoblar society have a tendency towards independence. These Gnoblars forsake their baggage-carrying brethren and band together into loose but numerous groups that take to the battlefield in the hope of stealing some particularly choice shiny things. Most of the time, the Gnoblars will loiter near the Ogres and make threatening yelps and shuffle around threateningly.

When the Ogres march to war, behind them scuttle Gnoblars who believe themselves tough enough to fight. Great swarms of these cowardly runts take to the battlefield and occasionally even find a way to aid their Ogre masters. Every now and then, the Gnoblars' sheer numbers enable them to pull down their foe in a tide of snapping maws, stabbing blades, and pure malice.

Gnoblar Fighters may be included in your Ogre Kingdoms army as Core choices. You cannot have more units of Gnoblar Fighters than you have units of Ogre Bulls."

I hope this answers your question! :thumb:

@ Eric - Good to hear you are able to borrow the Tyrant! Maybe you can do the same thing with whoever wins the Banner Elf. ;)
I've no idea what to recommend for your categories. I do like Eowyn though, she was always my favorire female character from when I read the LOTR books.

Good Luck!

:thinking:

[EricJ]

Thanks for the feedback already :)

Yeah, I figure if the Ogre does well, the guy should be double happy. I'm hoping right now the winner of the Elf Auction will feal the same way, since I don't want to do another piece with so much freehand, but I want to represent freehand on at least one of my minis entered (same with metallics, which I will do on at least one entry)

Nathan, that's really funny you should mention it, I think I had already decided it I wasn't going to go with either of those squads I would do repentia, in fact it was one of the reasons I've been recently experimenting with bruises and cuts, which I think would really add something to them ;) If I have time, I'll likely do them, however, if not, I have to decide here (I'm almost possitive only 1 entry per catagory).

I am of like mind on that Inquisitor, he might work in a squad, but alone would just show off the rough painting. I'm a little tired of Space Marines, although they do seem popular always. I also checked and it is currently against the rules to use any one elses sculpts or conversions for an entry, so I'm on my own there... Space marines are also probably the easist to convert...Really open to ideas now on 40k entries :)


I'll take a look at Radagast (who was actually always my favorite wizard, haha. Although in single miniatures I think female subjects are a strength for me, so I was even thinking doing another boring Arwen entry here as well :( Just to get it out of the way. Nathan, like you I'm not overwhelmed by these minis, so I'm thinking more to keep it something simple (single mini)

[Nathan Caroland]

I'm sure the winner of the elf bannerman will loan him out - hell, I'm half tempted to bid the bastard just to get him and give him back to you. I'll check how deep the pockets go on that one.

Do the Sisters Repentia, I haven't seen a really good squad of them yet and I think you would get a tickle out of it personally as they are female, plenty of flesh and they have a dark look to them as well that is just begging for abuse like you did for your munchkin.

You could always go with something else for the single 40k - my personal feeling is to go with something that perhaps isn't overdone, but then again, you are bucking the trend by going with something that might not be the most 'trendy'. You could always do Ogryn (or however you spell the damnable things) by converting an Ogre to the sci-fi, saw an article on that somewhere. Might make for a nice change. Failing that, how about some chaos female? Get a chance to use some unusual colors and enjoy the hell out of it.

As for the LotR stuff, personally I say be different, odds are, everyone is going to go for the same old favorites. In that case, odds are likely in your favor as you can look from one to another and see the difference, but at the same time, a contest with the same miniature all about can be a bit off. Then again, I don't plan on winning squat, so if I was to be honest with you, I would say go for the juggular and just win everything you can.

[Celtic Lilly]

I'm excited about this, can't wait to see what you come up with. Keep your Elf too I say, or maybe auction it AFTER you go to the GD. It would be worth more then anyhow.

Just something to oodle your noodle.

[green stuff]

Honnestly Eric, I'd advise you to present some new minis. I mean it's really nice of you to want to share your WIPs till the GD, but presenting already seen minis that are starting to date might backfire on you. At GD UK, Jakob presented his Adeptus Custodes for the second time and David W. did also for his ork ... OK they both got a demon, but I was really disappointed by the lack of new stuff on their part. By the way, six months is really short for a GD.

I hope you understand that I'm just playing the devil's advocate. When I read your first post, I was surprised by how easy going you sounded. You seemed a lot more motivated when under pressure for the Ogre Tyrant or the Dragyri.

By the way, Prophet is doing the Penitent Engine also. Are you two going to the same GD?

[EricJ]

Cedric, I know you're right in a lot of ways, and one of the reasons I asked about the pro's & cons before I just posted away.

A couple of thoughts on your points. I realize that entries which aren't new will ultimately probably hurt my chances, however the bottom line is that right now I am less worried about this than really learning the process of creating an entry or the project of creating a bunch of entries for an event. I've never been to a GD before or even seen competition level pieces in person, so I really really am in the dark about all of this and just what goes into it. Statues are nice, but I'm still very new to painting at the level I am, and I still have so much to learn. So that's my goal here :)

I also do want to give some of my older work (the tyrant and elf and even maybe a 40k squad) a shot, half because it means I can enter those catagories in this GD and spend my time elsewere, and half because I'd like just to see how they'll do!

And, no offense for Nathan here, Wyrd forum is still pretty much a tiny issolated community (with a ton of tallent however!), so I'm not sure if any GD judge or more than just 1 or 2 people who might make the event will even see this thread, lol. So basically I'm just ruining the surprise for all you guys :thumb:

All this being said, I am also working on an entry, or entries, which I'm not going to show, in case I make it to a bigger event, such as Baltimore or even UK (there's always the hope!).

Thanks for the feedback :) And as this thread progresses, I'd also love to hear your imput on the pieces, you have far more GD experience than me!

Thanks all in advance for the help! :)

-Eric

[EricJ]

Prophet...I'm not really sure where he lives of if we'd end up at the same GD...although honestly knowing there is another engine in the works if a fun motivation! :D

[green stuff]

He he, I just wanted to get you nervous ;).

Like Silphid says it, the key to a GD is to think up 3 great ideas and then to assume somebody already had them. If you can reinvent your concept then you've got the winning piece; paint wise I have no doubt you'll succeed, all you need now is THE idea ;).

[EricJ]

so, not to put down US games days...BUT, I'm not really sure that 100% applies here, (maybe it does to Baltimore). However, with my ultimate goal to compete in Europe, I should definately get myself into the habbit of thinking that way! :)

It's this reason I'm less worried about keeping the ideas secret when I'm working on entries for LA Games day, when I am working on entries for tougher events, I will likely be a bit more tight lipped :)

But step one is learning what it takes and geting a feel for it! and that's what this thread is for :)

[green stuff]

Forgot to say, for your new models, I hope we'll be seeing some of your strong points, ie : reflexive surfaces or OSL. If you have time, I'd advise you to spend more time on surface textures. Although most judges will be happy with a few freehands, if you can give the surface enough "grit", than that will really get you on the podium. It's kind of like "2001 the Space Odyssee" vs "Star Wars". One is clinicaly clean, the other screams realism (but both are good movies ... well maybe not the first 3 episodes of Star Wars :P).

[Ritual]

The reflexive surfaces can be a two-sided blade. While it's a unique thing it is DEFINITELY something that only looks right from one angle. Since the judges see the piece in real life the effect might not be as appreciated as when you see the piece in a photograph taken from the right angle.

[EricJ]

GS - would you say my painting is too.. "clean" at the moment? Also perhaps that is more an American style thing, and something american judges might be looking for, although maybe is the reason Americans also do very poorly in European competitions.

Anders - I thought that as well, since seeing these pieces they definately photo better than they look in person...Although I did see that one piece at the UK GD I think that had you looking into a scene that looked like it was basically in a box so you could only see it from one angle...which might be an option.

I definately think I will try to play to my strengths, in fact I am thinking about a piece along the lines of my Tiriel CCV entry, with GW minis of course for perhaps an open catagory piece? Because that piece does actually look good from any angle, since the light source and the shadow are both within the piece.

In terms of metalics, I want to be able to enter both nmm and metallics, which I think means a lot more metallic practice (I will try your class soon klute!!), since I think my nmms are much more developed.

[Duende]

... since I think my nmms are much more developed.

You think??

THEN:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v491/EricJ/Painting/Old%20minis/2ndRackham.jpg

NOW:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v491/EricJ/Painting/Works-of-Heart-Elf.jpg

Silly boy!
:damnmate:

[green stuff]

He he, clean is good ;). But I was, for example, refering to your water reflexion technic. It could IMHO use a bit more ripples, and a bit of semi transparency to see the bottom of the lake. I know I'm asking the moon, but it's these types of details that will be catching the eyes of the judges, and then catching them again and again, ... till their jaws drop ;).

At GD UK, I had an interesting discussion with Sanjay, Mike, Sven, and Sebastian on what the "next effect" that will be big in miniatures. Sanjay was for NMM with "environment mappings" ... Sven said he'd already done it (watch the swedes, they'll baffle more than one of us ;)). I think it'll rather be ultrarealistic textures (I know, I'm voting for my own country :P), but if you've ever held a mini with that kind of details in hand, you'll understand what I mean ;).

Let's take an example; this is one of Allan's minis that I've had the pleasure to hold and see the details up close :

http://allanc.art.free.fr/images/images%20figs/klown-post-apokaliptik-1.jpg

Forget about the blood soaked cape (not the best part) and the mutant head sculpt for the "clean" comment. In real, that head has ultra-thin veins painted under a very thin skin (I know it doesn't show on the photo :(). What I mean is that this mini has different levels to read the details. The first level is perfect blends (which you succeed without a doubt ;)), but underneath that, you can still see even more details.

Basically, what I mean is that I think you have the talent to make a big impact in the US miniature scene. By that I mean more than just making a name. In 1997 during the first French GD, Benoît Menard won the first slayer sword there (he also won it the following year); but it didn't stop there. He inspired the whole french scene, even now.

OK ... I'll stop now :P.

[EricJ]

Cedric, I agree with you about the reflections, the first 2 (and only) times I've did it, was really more just to try to understand the basics of what I was doing, and if you noticed I haven't touched the technique in 5 months or so, mostly because I've been trying adjust my thinking and understanding on it. However I am planning 1 or 2 pieces coming up very soon, (at least one before the end of 2005), which I hope to try to take the idea to the next level. It's been a bit slow because I'm sort of wandering off alone into the dark with it so far, so I don't have other peoples work to feed off of in the process, which would make things way easier...

The next big thing...that is a hard one. And while I do think that the layers and sublayers of details are amazing, I don't think it'll be the next big thing, since it may be so difficult that only a few can really pull it off...meaning it won't have quite the same widespread effect as other ideas such as nmm, and osl. I am also skeptical about the environmental mapping in reflective nmm...I am just not sure how well this can be pulled off at this scale. And if it can be, itll be the same issue as I discussed above, so difficult that all but a few could think to try it. I'll think about it...and if I figure it out...I'm not telling!!! (you'll have to wait until UK GD :P)

Cedric I also very much appreciate your kind words and faith in my painting. Right now I feel I'm still very much learning (thus the reason for this thread), but I do think that the US painting scene could use a kick in the butt, so to speak, and if I can do anything to help, it would be an honor!

Duende! now you're compairing metals to nmm! :P And there is about 2 years between those 2 paint jobs. lol

I really appreciate all the ideas here already, you have all given me a ton to think on, keep it coming! :)

[Duende]

Duende! now you're compairing metals to nmm! :P And there is about 2 years between those 2 paint jobs. lol

I really appreciate all the ideas here already, you have all given me a ton to think on, keep it coming! :)

I know it was metallics, but I looked in your gallery and even your old NMM paintjobs are so much better than what I could do on a good day with the help of aliens.

:abduct:

Another idea for LOTR: Although not a female mini, but how about a flaming Denethor?

:flaminghe

( I know, just wrong....)

[green stuff]

Another idea for LOTR: Although not a female mini, but how about a flaming Denethor?
Excellent idea ;). But you might want to check the rules for that; due to licencing constraints, conversions have been forbidden for most of the LOTR cats.

[Ritual]

Cédric, the ultra-realistic surface thing is interesting and something I've began to nibble on. I remember seeing a documentary from one of the LOTR films when one of their artists explained how he painted a model of a dead guy using lots of transparent layers and the result was stunning. I immediately began thinking about how you could apply that in 32 mm scale.

However, I'm not sure it could become the next 'big thing', since this kind of effects are so subtle they hardly show up in photos. The picture you showed of Allan's work don't show the skin effect you described and it's still a very good photo. None of my experiments with surface effects show up in photos either. The painting community is to a large extent internet-based and thus relies on photography.

Now, I'm not saying it's not worth experimenting with these things! Very much the opposite! It's very interesting and challenging to work with and you can come up with amazing results (I've got a long way to go on this, though...).

[green stuff]

To a lesser extent, the effect can be seen better here (but the first mini is nicer in real life ;)); look at the shoulder joints and the gut area :

http://www.coolminiornot.com/72904

and here David W. worked more on texture density than transparency :

http://www.coolminiornot.com/102863

@Anders : I think you're in the same general movement; your work is always highly detailed and the light contrast builds up the atmosphere in your art, you can sense that it's not going to be a pleasant trip in the forest, even your "good" miniatures are surrounded by dark powers that give the feeling that something gruesome is going to happen to them ;). Oh, and I think that in the Fellowship documentary they also said they applied that layer effect to Gollum ;). I had also seen it explained in the Final Fantasy movie documentary. What's interesting is that they are actually applying the oil paint technic :P.

[EricJ]

ok, so far it seems this technique only gets applied to less "pretty" flesh, zombie-type, nurgle, undead, gollum, etc...it seems that perhaps it's both very difficult to photograph, very difficult to exicute, and has a very limited range of applicable subject matter.

I vote against it being the next big thing! ;)

I'm not saying it's not super cool however! I've been sort of experimenting along these lines as well

[Ritual]

even your "good" miniatures are surrounded by dark powers that give the feeling that something gruesome is going to happen to them ;).

Everything I touch become tainted and spoiled!! :firedevil

Oh, and sorry Eric for sort-of-hijacking your thread! :dancing2:

[EricJ]

Anders, not a worry, I actually see the discussion quite on topic, particualarly since I don't have anything new painted to put up here. Well most of it's on topic, lol

Cedric, I just checked, it would seem that Prophet and I would end up at the same event, since we're both in/near the San Fransisco Bay Area, interesting! I hadn't put the handle together with his name. (we have a SF area mini-painting list and he doesn't go by prophet there, lol).

[green stuff]

ok, so far it seems this technique only gets applied to less "pretty" flesh, zombie-type, nurgle, undead, gollum, etc...
No, that's only because Allan and David are posessed by Nurgle :der: . I could easily see the transparent skin applied to elves. Tolkien elves are supposed to have ultra-thin skin that almost imits light.

Looks like your GD is going to be interesting, Prophet is a very worthy opponent ;).

[Ritual]

Yes, I do think you could use the transparent layer skin technique on basically any mini, but on a normal, living human being the effects will be EXTREMLY subtle and maybe not worth the trouble. On nurglish/dead/zombiefied/possessed or generally evil minis you can use the tecnique to a much further extent. I used that method on my Wandyr the Bloodthirsty that won the fantasy category of the last Wyrd competition. On pictures, his skin looks just dark and unhealthy, but in real life it has a complex depth of colours that I don't think could be achieved by any normal blending technique. I wish I could show you what I mean...

[Nathan Caroland]

Go ahead and send it to me Anders, I'll be happy to vouch for you. :D

[EricJ]

We need to put together a "buy Anders a way better Macro-lense Fund" :)

I do know what you mean, and I have played with this as well, most notable would be the Cyborg warrior girl I did for sacred blade. Her legs around the implants almost have vericose viens that sort of got turned into a blueish brusing effect instead in photo. It would actually be really interesting to see if a true top of the line photo equipment/set up could capture this.

I still think however it does have limited applications, and won't really apply to most minis out there, therefor not the next big thing ;)

It is still a cool thing!

[Nathan Caroland]

I know one miniature it would work PERFECTLY for. I'll have to dig up pictures here in a few days when I have the time.

:D

[EricJ]

thinking about it, do you think something along these lines would be possible for an Arwen LOTR figure? Might make it stand out from the 50 other arwen entries?

would be an interesting challenge to use this on a mini to make her more beautiful rather than more sickly looking

[Ritual]

On the other hand, a sickly looking Arwen would stand out among the 50 others. :laugh:

[Klute]

I dabbled myself a bit with details under final skin layers. Mainly veins on a few Celtos Gaels I did.
Looks great in the hand but as you all sussed is pretty pointless for photos.

Next big thing....havn't got a clue.

[green stuff]

By the way Eric, after having used green stuff on your Ogre Tyrant, are you planning on doing more sculpting conversions for the GD?

[EricJ]

yes! in fact I've been worked the last couple days on the start of my penitent engine, which I hope to have completely converted/resculpted legs, arms, driver...and probably most of the rest of it too. Once I started lookign closer at the model once I had it in hand, I was just really unhappy with it. I am hoping to make the legs more dynamic, the arms actually make sense, the driver stand out a lot more, and the body not look quite so much like a cardboard box with a exaust pipe. I am fearing my plans may be bigger than my ability, but I expect the attempt will be a good learning experience!

[green stuff]

Just a thought, are you planning on a "steam punk" look (where you wonder how the thing moves since it's all clunky and old), a "baroque" look (with gold etches and cathedral type art work), a "high-tech" look, or maybe something else?

[EricJ]

I was sort of thinking of a mix of high tech, and baroque actually, lol, sort of on a steampunk type base...

What I mean is the machine itself looks fairly high techy, but covered in artwork and symbolism (not to the point where I get myself kicked out of GD for too much freehand, lol). But put into a dirty high tech type setting, if that makes sense...although this is open to change.


And I have started now...I have one foot done and the base of the base done (the floor, no real excitment added yet)

[Nathan Caroland]

How do you mean to change the look from steampunk to baroque, not quite sure if I followed that. Through the use of GS or through the painting style?

[EricJ]

paint style :)

high techy stuff painted elaborately

[green stuff]

Have you thought of emulating some stained glass structure? I wasn't sure if you mean't that by saying "cathedral type art work".

[EricJ]

well I promised a work in progress of the penitent engine, and although I didn't get as far as I hoped this weekend, I did get some things done, I'm really actually very happy with how she's coming along. Unfortunately parts of the girl are a bit hard to see in the photo, the polished metal from where I carved down the original sculpt are hard to photo!

Nothing is final on her, so if you see something, any and all sugestions are welcomed

:)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v491/EricJ/PaintingWIP/Penitent%20Engine/Engine-SIP-2.jpg

[Nathan Caroland]

Looks very interesting and already a lot of GS there so I can see you are going for something unique.

[EricJ]

I hope I can make it something unique. Looking at the original penitent engine sculpt, what I didn't like was so much detail was given up for castability. All the gaps were filled, etc...

So the goal is to make a machine which is much..."crisper" without obscured details, hopefully most seen with the driver. I want a driver with really a 3d feel to her, rather than just something like a relief sunken into the front of the thing. You can't really see it here, but my girl has a arched back, and I want to make her almost looking tortured in the machine. Once I add the 10 or so wires and tubes connecting I hope that will enhance that some :)

I need to do something with the feet, I don't like that booted look... I don't think I can sculpt bare feet, so the other alternative is to have feet sunken into the machine...

[green stuff]

Thanks for the WIP Eric :).

First of all, you did a great job on the base, it's such a pain to get GS that regular.

Concerning the P.E.'s leg, it looks good, waiting for the rest ;).

For the girl, the torture theme is definitively the way to go. You might want to chop her legs and connect them to the P.E. like Kara's arms. Do you think she'll be getting hair?

[EricJ]

Thanks for the comments Cedric.

As for the base, yes, it took quite a while, and banging my head on the wall to get it regular. I still haven't decided quite what I'm going to do with it to give it a little more interest. That is something on the "currently unknown" list

The Leg was a bit of a pain, I think I am going to use the regular PE's bar across to connect the 2 legs (I like the hanging cloth and scull on it), then the second leg will be back and stepping on something, I think a large pipe...or something else that I can look a little crushed under the weight of the thing. Once the darn legs are done, then I can figure out how to do the main body. Which I'm completely lost about. Also I intend to add a number of bits of interest over the leg once the thing is all put together, to give the piece flare...although what that'll look like is also on the curently unknown list.

ummm, who is Kara? and clarify how you mean to connect them to the thing?

And as for hair, she has a TON of it already :) its just pulled back from her head so you can't see it there, but that's what is streaming to the side from her waist

[green stuff]

ummm, who is Kara?
>> Shameless plug of Kara Sinnear << (http://greenstuff.free.fr/img/WyrdGames/KaraSinnear/KaraSinnearFinalHighQuality.jpg)

The clamps where her arms have been amputated are great to do bruise, blood, and vein effects like you did on yours.

Maybe you could also try to put a blue electric arc effect somewhere to add in some localised OSL and deapen the mad scientist side of the scene.

[EricJ]

ah yes, THAT Kara, nice work Cedric, real nice, although I would love to see better photos :)

That is probably a really good idea for her feet, sort of have the machine taking over. Hah, anything to get rid of those ugly boots the original sculpt had.

[Ritual]

I'm curious why you did the base with green stuff instead of plasticard. It seems plasticard would have saved you quite a bit of trouble.

[EricJ]

Well, I do actually have a reason for it, although it's hard to see in this photo. One of my goal with the base was to have the figure interact more with it, I wanted to add a feeling of weight to the machine with how it connected to the base. The front foot you can see, I reset all the toes to sort of be grabbing the edge of the thing, and also once I have it painted to bring it out, I think it will be more obvious that it is actually denting the ground in that corner. It was much easier to do this with greenstuff...

Also while I might complain, getting it so smooth like that was actually relatively easy. I basically coated the entire thing with a relatively even layer of greenstuff, and then basically soaked it in water, and pressed a smooth piece of plasticard down hard onto it until the surface was completely smooth, then once that set just trimmed the edges clean.

I am thinking about making a press for diamond cut flooring and adding those bumps to the whole thing...And there should be a lot more added to the base before it's done as well...I hope

[Ritual]

Ah... makes sense! :)

[EricJ]

See! my madness has learned to fake method... :wacko:

[green stuff]

ah yes, THAT Kara, nice work Cedric, real nice, although I would love to see better photos :)
Thank you :). Photographing her is my bane ... the paint is just plain dark and my camera doesn't seem to pick up the details :(. If I change camera or borrow a better one, I'll post the pics ;). If you checked the Wyrd gallery or the CMON post, I of course gave full credit to you for the reflection idea ;).

That is probably a really good idea for her feet, sort of have the machine taking over. Hah, anything to get rid of those ugly boots the original sculpt had.
It's just an idea. You have to resculpt her upper legs though. But I think it would let you add a few painting details that you master the secrets to paint ;).

[EricJ]

I saw your comments :)

It was nice, your work was actually the first time I've seen anyone do that cyborg and anyone try reflections as well! :)

As for her legs, now you really got me thinking....damn you, all these things I really don't know if I can do in green...I guess it never hurts to try...but I am sort of liking the idea of her legs cut off right above the knee and just wires and tubes and stuff streaming out of her into the machine...

[green stuff]

As for her legs, now you really got me thinking....damn you, all these things I really don't know if I can do in green...I guess it never hurts to try...but I am sort of liking the idea of her legs cut off right above the knee and just wires and tubes and stuff streaming out of her into the machine...
You've done conversions before and your have the necessary patience to make the GS smooth; all you need to do is break up the different sections and work by layers, letting each layer cure before you do the next. A quick sketch could help you with volumes too ;).

[EricJ]

grrrrr, now I'm thinking it would look cool to have the arms cut similarly, you evil man! I think though this will be a huge improvement though if I can pull it off, I'm already mapping it in my head ;)

I guess it's about patience and doing it over and over until I'm happy with it.

My main problem is all that waiting for layers to cure :(

[green stuff]

you evil man!
:firedevil


I guess it's about patience and doing it over and over until I'm happy with it.

Just in case, keep the cut off pieces in case you're not happy with the result :tongue2:. But yeah, patience is the key to it ;).

My main problem is all that waiting for layers to cure :(
Put the pieces in front of a powerfull lamp to cut down on curing time.

[EricJ]

yeah, my problem is that I've replaced all my bulbs with low energy, low heat full spectrum...great to paint by...bad to cure the greenstuff...

Arg, ok, I have all new ideas now for the girl...new arms, new legs, new clothes...give me a couple days and she'll be back ;)

[green stuff]

Looking forward to it ;).

[EricJ]

ok, new direction, just thinking abotu getting entries started for real for LA..

Here was my thought for:

Category 6 – Lord of the Rings Single Miniature
This category covers any single Lord of the Rings model mounted on a 25mm or 40mm base. This can include models on foot or mounted.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v491/EricJ/Painting/GamesDay/Gollum.gif

Gollum, and I know he's been done to death, BUT I think I might have something unique to offer, especially since it sounds like I can put him on a 40mm base...which gives a lot of room for water in front of him ;)

The question - From this, does it sound like I can mount him on a 40mm and have it qualify, even though he comes with a 25mm base? I'm not doing yet another version of gollum without my reflection, lol...

[Ritual]

Are you thinking of doing the 'reflection scene' where he talks to his reflection in the water and then Sam comes up behind?

[EricJ]

maybe, although I guess he didn't have a fish in that one...but would be cool to just have the gollum mini in this scene, but have a reflection of gollum with sam behind him in the water...

[Ritual]

No, no fish in that scene... And I guess you're still not allowed to convert the LotR minis?

[green stuff]

As much as I love the idea, I'd stear away from it if I were you. Jérémie's version is too well known :

http://bragonart.free.fr/images/galerie/gollum1.jpg

Knowing what you can do, I'm sure you could paint it up better than what he did in 2003, but I can already hear all the folks on Créafigs ranting that you took his idea. Some will say who cares, but trust me, it can get very ugly over there (and I am deaply ashamed of some of the members' attitude).

Plus, base wise, usually GW wants you to use the original base for the LotR category (it'd be best to check with the US trolls).

I do have another idea to submit to you. Why not do Goldberry walking on water ? : reflexion + OSL (she's got a candle in her hand) ;).

[Ritual]

Yes, I agree with Cédric here, best to stay away from that... Remember the debacle over Trovarion's German GD entries a while back?

[green stuff]

Remember the debacle over Trovarion's German GD entries a while back?
The funny thing though is that I prefered his version to what Rune did (I didn't care much for the head that was used) ... all he had to do was get rid of that flag and the ressemblance wouldn't have been so flagrant :P.

By the way Eric, how's the penitent engin coming along? I'm spending a week with my familly and then I've got another week of free time, so I should be getting back to my own GD entries soon :).

[Frenchkid]

i don't think there was much idea behind that gollum jeremy did. It was done in three hours the night before the event for fun, so I don't think you risk too much by trying out somthing similar.
Plus you shouldn't let some *censored* spoil your fun of the hobby, do what you feel like and if some people don't like it..... to bad :P well my 2 cents anyway ;)

[green stuff]

As much as I would like to agree with you Arthur, I see two things against it :

1) For an unknown reason of me, the french have become really negative on Créafigs (what they said about the spanish and what was implied on the italians was completely uncalled for). So I wouldn't be surprised if some of them ranted beyond reason;

2) What's the point in redoing something that has already been done when you're entering an artistic competition? I agree it could be painted better (in RL it is a lot better than what the picture shows though), but the idea has already been used. In GD UK 2005, I was quite disapointed that Jakob recycled his Adeptus Custodes. OK he got a demon (and it was well deserved), but it felt stale.

Just my 2 euro cents on the subject ;).

[Ritual]

If the idea is done already it takes a bit of the fun away from doing it... Also it takes a LOT of the fun away if you have to defend yourself from a bunch of twats afterwards...

[EricJ]

I hadn't seen that gollum, and yes, now that I have, I won't use the idea, it's too close.

Goldberry is interesting, although I was never super drawn to the sculpt, but looking at it, I think that may be because the paint job GW has is really quite bad. That definately could be an interesting idea...I don't remember, did she ever walk on water? The Candle with some OSL would probably work good though :)

As for the engine, it is coming along, I've pretty much resculpted the driver now. I've sort of started to think of this as my main UK GD entry, so I may start being a lot more closed mouth about it. I don't want it to become stale :D You all may just have to wait, and come to the UK to see it.

[green stuff]

I don't remember, did she ever walk on water?
Not in the books, but on the other hand, Tom and her are supposed to be some kinds of gods/spirits, so technically it wouldn't be that surprising.

The Candle with some OSL would probably work good though :)
It had already been done though :P. I can't remember if it was GW, Alexi, or Margo ??? I'll look for it tonight.

I don't want it to become stale :D
;)

You all may just have to wait, and come to the UK to see it.
See you there ;).

[EricJ]

Yeah, the problem with LOTR's catagories, is there are really only a handful of minis that are competition level sculpts, so I think pretty much EVERY one has been done before, lol. I may just have to live with that, and just try to do one better than done before, and I may even do gollum and reflection, but use one of the other models of him...we'll see.

[green stuff]

Oh, oh, oh, I think I have a good idea, but it may be tricky to find the right Gollum. What about when (in the Two Towers) he's playing in the river near the falls (the day scene) splashing water everywhere. Reflexions can't be done on such a scene, but if you can get some scenic water to make the right splashes, it could be a very dynamic scene. Plus, it's one of the rare moments where Smeagol is more present than Gollum, and people have mostly been painting Gollum I think.

I know it's tricky and it's putting more the accent on diorama technic then on painting but it'd be fun to see IMHO.

[EricJ]

hmm, I only see 3 gollums, the one with the fish, the one climbing down the cliff, and then one other sort of crawling over rocks. Am I missing the one you've mentioned?

[Nathan Caroland]

Ok, my problem is that in general, most everything has already been done when it comes to the LOTR stuff - to be honest, I think the sculpts are crap, have no flair, and in general are just being slurped up by the folks that went ape over the movies (which, I will get hanged for, I thought just simply weren't all that).

In general, you have to either paint like a mutha or convert the hell out of anything that you do in order to wow the masses and to get some ideas. Eric, in this case I think you'll manage well. Do your reflection bit on atleast one of your entries and you'll grab some folks by the short hairs there. The whole GS conversion you are doing on your Penitent Engine is likely going to be that extra 'step' that is needed to win something with it.

Besides that, there is the idea that I floated to you yesterday which I think will win you one hands down. I'll keep my mouth shut on that one, but if you're looking for a 'ooooooh' factor, that will certainly appeal to a lot of people that enjoy the testosterone miniatures.

[green stuff]

hmm, I only see 3 gollums, the one with the fish, the one climbing down the cliff, and then one other sort of crawling over rocks. Am I missing the one you've mentioned?
No, I guess that's all there is then ... to bad, would have been fun.

Oh, and I found that Goldberry I mentionned before, but it was done by mrika on CMON :

http://www.coolminiornot.com/pics/pics7/img410eac5d3f7b2.jpg

[EricJ]

that's nice, but I think I could do better, and I don't think she entered it in a Games day, has she?

My big problem is that she kind of looks like the wife from the cartoon american dad

See Here (http://www.fox.com/americandad/features/wallpapers/francine1024.gif)

[green stuff]

that's nice, but I think I could do better, and I don't think she entered it in a Games day, has she?
I did a quick search on the GDs of UK, France, and Germany on the last three years and didn't find anything.

My big problem is that she kind of looks like the wife from the cartoon american dad
LOL, I think it's the lips :P.

[Frenchkid]

I must disagree with you cedric on the uslessness of doing somthing that has already been done. Well I don't totally disagree, but at the level of painting we're talking about I don't think two minis could ever be the same.
See, part of what could make minis art is the reflexion of the painters self in the mini, in over word the fact that each paintwork can be reconized as beeing done by a specifique painter. Wich is the case with eric or anders for exemple. And as such two minis, even done with the same base idea, would never be the same. Each different painter would somthing deeply personal to his mini, making it unique. And that for me is worth doing it. Of course that is suposing the painter does want to do the mini and considers it something fun or interesting to do.
As for the folks on crea, I quit agree with you when you say that some of them will bitch and moan. But like I said if you don't paint for them there's no reason to care or to even feel like you should defend yourself. And since you like to realte to 'real' art, were would art be today if painters of the dada mouvment had listened to outraged critics ?
So in my opinion, go for it if that's what you want to do :D



The water thingy sounds like a good idea, good way to add dynamisme to a scene without tweaking the mini. Resin could be used, that's what most dioramas with such water effects are made off. I seem to recall a tutrial that used this to show the water front when the nazgul try to cross the river in the movie. All you have to do is find the right mini :P

[green stuff]

I must disagree with you cedric
We live in a free country, so feel free to ;).

[EricJ]

So what do you know about the LOTR catagory (s) in UK? in the US they've become just small and large/regiment all on game legal bases, no dioramas. Does the UK still have LOTR diorama catagory? I have this idea brewing, but I don't want to invest too much in it if there is no place for it...:(

[green stuff]

Last year's UK rule :

"CATEGORY 10 - THE LORD OF THE RINGS SINGLE MINIATURE
This is open to any single miniature from the Lord of The Rings range of models. All models must be presented on their standard gaming base."

I'd be surprised they change the rules this year since it's just about been like this from the start. But I'll be keeping an open eye just in case.

[EricJ]

Last year's UK rule :

"CATEGORY 10 - THE LORD OF THE RINGS SINGLE MINIATURE
This is open to any single miniature from the Lord of The Rings range of models. All models must be presented on their standard gaming base."

I'd be surprised they change the rules this year since it's just about been like this from the start. But I'll be keeping an open eye just in case.


:mad: :lame:

[green stuff]

Sorry, I missed these :

CATEGORY 8 - DUEL
This category comprises of two single models mounted on a single 40mm or 50mm Slottabase. The judges will be looking for a dynamic pairing of two well-matched opponents in some kind of combat or other dramatic situation. Models may be from the Warhammer, Warhammer 40,000 or The Lord of The Rings ranges.

CATEGORY 9 - DIORAMA
Entries for this category consist of a diorama based on the worlds of Warhammer, Warhammer 40,000 or The Lord of The Rings. The display must not be larger than 30 x 30cm and the maximum permitted height is 30cm. The diorama should be appropriate to the background of Warhammer, Warhammer 40,000 or The Lord of The Rings, but otherwise there are no restrictions on the battle scene's theme or content.

[EricJ]

haha, cedric you tease!!! Keep these from me! (although I suppose I probably could have tracked down the catagories myself)

Well, if I have the time, I think I may have figured my Diorama entry ;)

[green stuff]

Are you planning any LotR conversions? This year in France they are allowing it providing only bits from LotR are used. Is it the same in UK?

[EricJ]

yeah, no mixing bits I hear, but I think that'll be ok

when I get home, I'll grab an image of the scene I'm thinking about. I have a feeling the chance of this one actually getting done is pretty small, but hey, planning is fun.

I did however start on my first entry last night! I'm actually painting something now ;)