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bigstupidfighter
09-21-2010, 08:00 PM
Nephilim. In Book 1 they moved fast, hit hard, evolved and full healed, and were often considered a wee bit overpowered. In Book 2 they got more love than they could have asked for, and I think we will be hearing many more stories of defeat from those who have to deal with these supremely maneuverable monsters.

I’m aware that there is already a Lillith tactica on these boards, but I’m looking to make a thread more akin to the Outcast Tactica thread, going through uses of models one by one. I’m going to put them forth in an order that I think will make for the easiest read-through, which will of course most likely make my thread a convoluted mess of half-explained ideas. For the record, everything below can be considered IMHO.
 
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Nekima: I choose to start with Nekima because she is, to me, the heart and soul of a Nephilim crew, moreso than any Master or henchman currently in print. Nekima’s use depends largely on what other models you’re running, but her role is generally to stick close to the main army, providing powerful buffs in addition to her own considerable combat prowess to take out the enemy forces. I won’t say any more about her here as she will be winding her way in and out of my theories about how other models should be used.

Terror Tots: I tend to think of Terror Tots as my supply line. They are fragile and need to be kept safe from enemy attack, but at the same time need to be near the front lines to provide support by turning into more powerful units. They should be near Nekima since without her casting Grow can be problematic. When a Tot does leave Nekima, it is probably going to be because you need to accomplish an objective and a more important unit cannot be spared for the job. Terror Tots are particularly good at this because Nekima vastly improves their Sprint spell, and they can be given flight in a pinch. If push comes to shove, remember Nekima can give them +masks to attack, making them auto-trigger Flay on their attacks.

Young Nephilim: The backbone of the Nephilim army, the Young should stick to Nekima because she can allow them to trigger Flay 100% of the time, giving them the same damage as Mature. They have two major functions- first, they can stick to Nekima and act as standard infantry units, hopefully Matureing during the fighting. Second, they can act as shock troops, using Diving Attack to hit the opponent in unexpected places. Between Flay and Melee Expert a Young can be relied upon to take out enemy scouts quickly and then rejoin the main army, or to draw enemy attention allowing the main army to move about unhindered. Young Nephilim should usually be grown from Tots, so their death is a minor setback.

Mature Nephilim: Tall, dark, and ugly, these guys get it done. Unlike their smaller brethren they have little need of Nekima’s support, and are thus the best choice for dealing with threats too far out of the way to hit with the main army. Diving Attack lets them get the drop on their targets more often than not, but even if you have to come out take a few hits that’s OK, 10 wounds and Armor 1 should protect them from most onslaughts. Don’t make the mistake of thinking these guys aren’t expendable- if one dies, another can always be promoted up from the ranks.

Black Blood Shaman: The obvious use for BBS is as a support unit for the main army, but it is perhaps the most versatile Nephilim. Early in the game it is good for improving the overall speed of a Nephilim crew by going out first and using Blood in the Air to summon the rest toward it. After that they make the perfect partners for Mature Nephilim since they can be Carried easily. They are by no means slouches in combat due to their poison, and with access to blood counters they become absolute terrors, good at healing, killing, and buffing. As Silver Chocobo once said, Mature Nephilim should never have fast! Nekima can also be used with them to great effect, as she lets them automatically pull off Bloody Mess, getting their blood counters back for free. The bottom line on these guys is that they are just plain hard to fit into smaller lists, but if you can afford them their uses are endless.

Malifaux Cherub: Worthy of note as the only Totem Nephilim, this little guy is only available with Lillith and works reasonably well with his brood. Nekima and her +masks to casting is probably the only thing relevent to him, but its possible for him to survive when attacked due to Dissappear, which makes the ready availablity of healing in the crew very nice fo him as well. I would consider him as a cheap alternative to Waldgeist/Hooded Rider(discussed below) since he can spam Illusionary Forest every if you want him to.

Warning! Theoryfaux ahead! I have not used Lelu and Lilitu in actual games!

Lilitu: Unique on the Nephilim list, Lilitu specializes in bringing the enemy to you rather than the other way around. Combined with her 4” melee range and powerful healing abilities she becomes an excellent support unit even at the steep price of 7ss. Combined with Nekima a Lilitu can keep herself healed without a Lelu on the map, allowing you to use tots instead of Lelu and evolve them when you get a 12 or 13 in hand. As written, they are insane with Nekima, as if they have line of sight to a model they can Lure it in and continuously trigger Double Take for terrific damage output. There’s an entire thread on whether this needs errata here- http://www.wyrd-games.net/forum/showthread.php?t=15042

Lelu: Aside from their obvious capacity to keep Lilitu from withering away into nothing, these guys pack a serious punch. To make up for their lack of flight and Diving Attack they have remarkable healing capabilities, meaning if your opponent wants them dead they have to put serious effort into killing them, making them exellent decoys. They are a halfway point between Young and Mature as far as general tactics go- kept near Nekima they can trigger Flay consistently, but even when going solo they may still activate and be healed along with Lilitu.

Special Mention- Enslaved Nephilim: It’s important for Perdita players to remember her totem is a Nephilim. I played a game once where I was hiding behind illusionary forest, late in the game I commented that the Enslaved Nephilim could see through the forest since the ability did not specify Friendly Nephilim, and though I won that game, my opponent and I both agreed it might have gone differently if he had known that from the beginning his totem had LoS to my stuff. If you’re running Dita, be sure to know which abilities affect it and which ones don’t! Also, I think it would make a cool Lelu proxy, but that’s just me.
 
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The Women Behind the Nephilim-

Lillith: The obvious choice to lead her own brood, Lillith does indeed have a great deal of synergy with her children. Since both she and her totem are Nephilim all the tricks you’re using to help your units apply to her too, and Drain Blood and Blood from Stone can provide more fuel for your army. The downside of Lillith is that she is a mobile melee killing machine, which is something the Nephilim already have in spades. Transposition and Earthquake let you engage the enemy that much more efficiently. There’s a while tactica for her here- http://www.wyrd-games.net/forum/showthread.php?t=9302

Zoraida: A viable option for leading the Nephilim crew, Zoraida has little synergy with her own crew so she loses nothing by trying to lead the Nephilim. She’s especially good at getting those hard-to-reach enemies via conduit, and using Obey to finish off an enemy or help a wayward Nephilim rejoin the pack. In addition to this she is good for accomplishing objectives because she is very mobile and can summon Stitched Together to pad your model count for strategies like Claim Jump or Reconnoiter. For me her main selling point is she does not need additional SS, and she gets her totem free, meaning I have more SS leftover to buy Nephilim when playing her.

Pandora: Haven’t played her myself, but Lilitu and to a lesser extent Nekima and Matures cause quite a few wp duels. Add that to the fact that lelu and lilitu are Woes and she looks like she has potentail as a Nephilim leader, but that’s just theoryfaux from me.


Other units of note:

Desperate Mercenary: If you intend to cannibalize your own units for blood counters, these guys are the cheapest option available, period.

Waldgeist/Hooded Rider: Good for protecting your forces from ranged attacks on maps with limited cover. The Waldgeist is cheaper but really only works if you have Lillith to make Illusionary Forests. The Hooded Rider is powerful in combat, keep him on Night mode to protect your army. Good Rider thread found here- http://www.wyrd-games.net/forum/showthread.php?t=15534

Everything Else: Many neverborn models are extremely powerful and may be tempting to add on the crew. In general I would advise against including non-neverborn models without a good reason, since they won't synergise with the rest of the crew. Nekima synchs well with anything that targets wp, but if you're hiring something like that its probably in place of Lilitu who does synch up. I think with all the new units provided in Book 2 there is very little incentive to marry outside the clan. (Does anything I say make sense?)

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Strategies and lists:

I’ve written out what’s probably the most efficient way to grow your tots into Mature Nephilim on turn 1 here- http://www.wyrd-games.net/forum/showthread.php?t=15209 (http://www.wyrd-games.net/forum/showthread.php?t=15209It) It needs to get cleaned up a bit, I will do so when I can.

I will try to keep any relevant (and reasonably short) strategies posted by others in this thread here as well.


Well, that's it for me. I'm curious to see what people think of my uses of the Nephilim crew, particularly whether others agree that Nekima is almost an aouto-include for a Nephilim list. Hope you enjoyed this small tactica about that elite sub-faction we know and love. :feedback:

KiltedWolf
09-22-2010, 01:06 AM
Awesome, thanks for taking the time to write this up! I'll be reading this more closely when I am awake, and to build up my Nephilim ranks.

Wodschow
09-22-2010, 03:08 PM
Okay a few things :) In totally random order, just as I thought of them.

First off a correction:
Tots and Young Nephilim do Not go back to full health when they grow/mature, you mentioned this a few times. They only gain 3 Wd extra from what they had before (as this is the difference between Tot->Young and Young->Mature Wd stats).

Oh, and you said most the Nephilims tricks apply to Lilith aswell, Book1 Nephilim doesn't have many tricks and all of the new ones but Inject Blood and Potent Blood doesn't affect masters. Still Liliths own spells add alot to the crew - but I don't feel she receives all that much (okay healing can be crazy good, especially for a high Df master such as Lilith, but it's such a short range and Black Blood Shaman are fairly fragile).

Zoraida can obey Nekima, 'nough said.

Nekima reduces enemy Wp greatly. Only Lilith and Lilitu of the Nephilim target Wp, but there's alot of other models in the Neverborn section that does so.

Not 100% on this one, but I believe Lilitu are within 2" of themselves, which means both Lelu and Lilitu can heal 4Wd every turn without the aid from Black Blood Shaman or Nekima (which is alot).

Actually interesting to notice that all the new Nephilim have some sort of healing mechanism to give other Nephilim..

karn987
09-22-2010, 03:19 PM
Not 100% on this one, but I believe Lilitu are within 2" of themselves, which means both Lelu and Lilitu can heal 4Wd every turn without the aid from Black Blood Shaman or Nekima (which is alot).



Yup, they are within 2" of themselves. So a Lilitu could heal it's self and thus heal a Lelu through Same Malignant force.

Sliver Chocobo
09-22-2010, 03:40 PM
I'm to look at the totem's if your playing lilith since she's the only one iv've played with the nepililm

Cherub, i used this in book 1 i never liked it, however due book two i see a lot of use for it, it's a nepilim so Nekima can give it an extra :masks so casting Teransposition and lilith's other spells easier

Primordial magic

The extra card from Arcane Reservoir and rush of magic make a good combo if you want to make lelu, and lots of card advantage is very good, and this is more than most i used this during book 1 and i ment cheatin was verry easy

student of conflict

My favour of the totems, keep him near a mature, this can lead into a verry powerful and sudden attack straight into the heart of your oppents crew

bigstupidfighter
09-22-2010, 05:52 PM
Wodschow: You're right the healing, I must have misread the errata at some point. Thanks for catching that, I edited it out. While free healing would be nice not having it doesn't really change any strategies, so no harm done. Lilitu being able to heal themselves is a pretty big deal though, it makes them much more attractive for use in lower SS games.

I'm a little confused as to what you mean by Lillith not benefiting from being a Nephilim, afaik the only thing she can't use is Nephilim Heart, which is admittedly a very important one.

Chocobo, on the subject of totems, I personally like the Cherub since it's a Nephilim, but I could see using primordial magic too. Student of Conflict seems a little outdated to me since BBS can give Fast as a (1) action and has great synergy with Matures, but I suppose its useful if you can't proxy. I'm going to be very happy when the new Nephilim arrive, unfortuneately that may not be for awhile since Wyrd seems to like to get out their boxsets first :(

Wodschow
09-22-2010, 06:23 PM
Blood Magic aswell, which I consider the Shamans main buff.

And Growth Spurt, which doesn't matter much as she's the Master of Malifaux anyway.

It's just that you said 'since Lilith is a Nephilim the all the same tricks apply to her', which I found odd as most buffs don't require her to be Nephilim and the best of those that do don't affect her anyway.

But I owe you an apology, I believed the list to be longer than this, mainly I thought she didn't benefit from Nekimas Nephilim Princess :aura given the relationship between the sisters.


A look at the other buffs you can give her with the Shaman:
- 2Wd healing, very nice, but also very short range.
- 4" extra movement, hardly needed, but who says nay to free movement?
- Flurry (most likely overkill, though useful under certain circumstances I believe).
- Potent Blood - Probably better used on something weaker though.
- Spill Black Blood ... On Lilith?! Very, very, very circumstancial..

Sliver Chocobo
09-23-2010, 04:41 AM
Chocobo, on the subject of totems, I personally like the Cherub since it's a Nephilim, but I could see using primordial magic too. Student of Conflict seems a little outdated to me since BBS can give Fast as a (1) action and has great synergy with Matures, but I suppose its useful if you can't proxy. I'm going to be very happy when the new Nephilim arrive, unfortuneately that may not be for awhile since Wyrd seems to like to get out their boxsets first :(

true, in fact the last time i used the Student of Conflict it died due to black blood, but it already gave my mature fast (that let me win the game)

Zwergenkrieger
01-22-2011, 01:35 PM
Hi all,

just found this pretty tactics on the boards, but I wonder about the bolded sentence:


Zoraida: A viable option for leading the Nephilim crew, Zoraida has little synergy with her own crew so she loses nothing by trying to lead the Nephilim. She’s especially good at getting those hard-to-reach enemies via conduit, and using Obey to finish off an enemy or help a wayward Nephilim rejoin the pack. In addition to this she is good for accomplishing objectives because she is very mobile and can summon Stitched Together to pad your model count for strategies like Claim Jump or Reconnoiter. For me her main selling point is she does not need additional SS, and she gets her totem free, meaning I have more SS leftover to buy Nephilim when playing her.
I can´t find any ruling about Zoraida and summoning, so I like to ask, what´s the deal here?

ZK

Mergoth
01-22-2011, 02:32 PM
Zoraida can summon wicked dolls instead of making a voodoo doll. The difference is she can make them all game long without having to sac the last one.

magicpockets
01-22-2011, 06:20 PM
Zoraida can summon wicked dolls instead of making a voodoo doll. The difference is she can make them all game long without having to sac the last one.

Just noticed this on a read through - probably a typo. Zoriada can summon wicked dolls (which are insignificant apart from special circumstances so not perfect for strategy grabbing), def cannot summon stitched though ;)

128th_king
01-23-2011, 06:01 AM
To make up for their lack of flight
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that Lelu have Flight... don't have my cards or book on me sorry.
Pandora is a very viable option for leading a crew, not entirely of Nephilim, but it works really well even with about 50% Nephilim, with the rest of the crew having WP abilities, I've found it provides a very different type of list to what people expect to see facing Pandora.
try Hamelin with them, Obey+doubletake on Nekima, charge them then hit them.... then activate Nekima.....
just always remember to make sure that your opponent wants to have fun too

Q'iq'el
01-23-2011, 06:32 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that Lelu have Flight... don't have my cards or book on me sorry.

Lelu have flight and Lelitu have float which is even better. However none of them has Diving attack! and that's what makes Young and Mature Nephilim particularly good at charging from behind terrain.

128th_king
01-23-2011, 06:54 AM
you can give it to them with Pandora and the doppelganger