Performer and Mannequin uses

[88elite]

i'm a new player and have had a few games with the showgirls. my heavy lifters are of course colette and cassandra. my performers and mannequins just die and do very little. what can i do with them.

[alemon]

I use them for the pseudo-lure and the poison, along with paralyze. The mannequins for mirrors, and maybe every once in a while I sacrifice them to give my showgirls some bonus.

Remember the Performers are irresistible show they shouldn't die that easily, especially when the mannequins cast mirrors.

[Q'iq'el]

The way I see it, for now in theory (still building my Showgirls), the mannequins are best for buffs. Link one to Colette, one to Cassandra and simply maintain the link (so that they keep up) and recast Tricks of the Trade most of the time. Mirrors when needed.

If you lose one, you can always try to get them back with Colette's trigger.

Performers, may be hired only so that you can get your initial Mannequins, but their "Seduction" debuff is very powerful. I think I'll keep the Performers back and summon them with Mannequin's spell when needed, only to debuff Colette's or Casandra's target.

Siren Call is a variant of Lure spell in a way and should be just as solid a spell too. Considering how good Lure is, I think it will come in handy from time to time.

[Wodschow]

The way I see it, for now in theory (still building my Showgirls), the mannequins are best for buffs. Link one to Colette, one to Cassandra and simply maintain the link (so that they keep up) and recast Tricks of the Trade most of the time. Mirrors when needed.

Can you do that? I was under the impression that you have to use (0) Soul Dancer to cast Tricks of the Trade unless you wish to sacrifice the Mannequin.
And if you soul dance you cannot link.. Hmm.. I might be wrong on this one though.. If I am it just makes the Limited Soulstone User on the Soulstone Miner a somewhat meaningless talent..

[Q'iq'el]

Can you do that? I was under the impression that you have to use (0) Soul Dancer to cast Tricks of the Trade unless you wish to sacrifice the Mannequin.
And if you soul dance you cannot link.. Hmm.. I might be wrong on this one though.. If I am it just makes the Limited Soulstone User on the Soulstone Miner a somewhat meaningless talent..

It's one of these unclear situations where you're told to discard the soulstone.

I'm not sure if that requires ability to use soulstone or not.

For example Headshot trigger contains wording that limit discarding to models with use soulstone, but Slit Jugular doesn't (for almost identical ability).

From that I worked out that unless ability restricts discarding soulstones to a model with use soulstone, anyone in the crew can discard one.

On the other hand Headshot may be the case of over-clarification. We've seen some of those recently and as such my reasoning may be going too far. :/


Even if it turns out Tricks of the trade can be cast only with Sould Dancer, it still doesn't make it useless. Tricks of the Trade do not have to be maintained, so in the turn you need Colette or Casandra to get them, simply activate the Mannequin first (should be in b2b if it was linked in previous turns), do Tricks of the Trade, send C&C to kill, maim and punish and in the next turn use Tricks of the Trade to call them back to the Mannequins (after they finish their activations within 12"). In the 3rd turn after TofT you can happily relink.

You can speed it up considerably if you keep a performer close and decide to kill it - then you can have Colette or Casandra back in the b2b contact with the Mannequin at the end of the sane turn you used TofT for a buff (at the cost of one performer and 2 soulstones though, so it may be a bit too expensive).

[LoboStele]

Quite certain that you have to do (0) Soul Dancer first in order for the Mannequins to use a Soulstone while doing TofT. Models cannot use Soulstones for any purpose unless they have the Use Soulstone ability, as far as I've been able to tell. That's why TofT has the two different options for activating the spell.

My biggest problem lately has just been rotten card luck. In 3 games I've played with Colette, I've had exactly 2 rounds (so like, out of 20 rounds total...Show Must Go On, thank you :tongue2: ) where I actually pulled a card in my hand with a :masks on it. I can get Tomes like crazy, and I've even had a hand where I had 10, 11, and 12 of Tomes, so was fun trying to use those to get off Disappearing Act/Mannequin Replacement. But I have only 1 time got lucky enough to cast Mirrors, or get Cassandra's trigger for casting Breathe Fire after a Melee Attack.

So, I've found that without a decent hand of cards, it's nearly impossible for the Mannequins or Performers to utilize their spells, since like EVERYTHING needs a :masks

I really need to try having the Mannequins just follow Colette and Cassandra though. I keep forgetting to utilize the Colette/Mannequin trick when doing Illusionist, as you can do Illusionist twice, once to swap with Cassie or whoever is in danger, and then swap next with the Mannequin, and then Link allows the Mannequin to snap back to Colette at the end, leaving no one in threat range.

I haven't once been able to get Siren Call off, so I haven't had the pleasure of using the Paralyze/Poison combo either. And to top it off, lately, I keep ending up playing against people who either have Terrifying, and force me to blow my cards that way (once again, lousy luck, even with Colette's Wp boosting :aura) or things like the stupid Stitched Together making me lose cards.

Needless to say, I'm somewhat frustrated at the moment. The crew seems to be way too dependent on having a strong hand of cards, but there aren't any models that really work well with the crew to help me in that area.

[88elite]

i've always had trouble with getting the mask for triggers or spells. i think that's why i find the performer and mannequin combo a little limiting....at least the way i play them now.

i have been lucky enough to cast disappearing act and getting the three tome trigger off multiple times though. kind of ironic with that.

i do agree that you do constantly need a good hand to at least do average abilities and combos. but i do find that with colettes drawing two cards in the first few turns can be helpful. get good cards hopefully and hold onto them when needed.

[Q'iq'el]

Actually many of the Showgirls can use their AP to add :masks to their Ca and Cb.

No else but Mannequins themselves can add :masks to other Showgirls Ca - it's one of the Tricks of the Trade.

[Wodschow]

i do agree that you do constantly need a good hand to at least do average abilities and combos. but i do find that with colettes drawing two cards in the first few turns can be helpful. get good cards hopefully and hold onto them when needed.

Funny.. I think I'd almost always use the ability reversed. Discard cards you won't need and get extra SS that you will definetly make a good use of later.

[LoboStele]

Actually many of the Showgirls can use their AP to add :masks to their Ca and Cb.

No else but Mannequins themselves can add :masks to other Showgirls Ca - it's one of the Tricks of the Trade.

Only Cassandra can add a :masks to her Cb/Ca by using Sublime Performance. Actually, maybe the Coryphee's can too, but I don't have them yet, and don't have my book on me at the moment. The problem is, I think Cassie still needs a 10 or an 11 in order to activate the Sublime Performance Spell. Compared to her other two (0) action abilities for dishing out :-fates on stuff, it's a tough sell for me many times. The Performer have no way to add the :masks to their abilities. Yes, the Mannequins can add it for somebody else, but again, you need like a 10 to cast the spell in the first place, and then you have to either blow a SS or sac the Mannequin as well. So it's tough to give that :masks to other people as well, at least in my experience.

And yeah, I've never used Colette's ability to get more cards instead of SS's at the beginning of the game, but come to think of it, maybe that's not a bad idea. Except it probably won't help you too much in the first round, unless you pull a couple good cards and just want to hang on to them. I may have to give that strategy a try. I've been trying to hang onto my SS's if I can, as I've found myself VERY quickly blowing through them in later rounds. But getting a couple of good cards in my hand might be worth it early on.

[88elite]

the whole drawing cards at the beginning is actually how i manage to get the three tome trigger for colette. and if you do get something you don't like on her reactivation you just dump two cards and gain the ss back.

though i do wanna try out the mechanical dove strategy as well. i think that is the best way for the performer to be a strong asset.

[LoboStele]

I've tried the Doves, and they are awesome for using Colette's Magician's Duel on stuff, especially if you can use Flight and the 10 inch movement in order to go after a Master. Either way though, that Spell isn't too tough for the Dove's to utilize, so works pretty nicely. I haven't really seen a chance for one of the showgirls to use the Dove as a SS. I like summoning them for only 1 SS though as opposed to building them in the squad to start with. Though, I need to try a few different options to know for sure. I definitely need to start letting my first round be more about getting extra cards/SS and such, instead of rushing to complete my objectives right away.

[dakrulz55]

i only end up purchasing a dove when im over the 8ss limit for 35ss
corphee x2 14ss
cassandra 9ss
performer 6ss
mech dove 2ss
situations like that, thatd put me to 9 ss without the dove.

[Koali]

Why not adding A desperate Mercenary?

he is pretty solid for its Cost!

Colette
Casandra 9
2 Croys 14
Performer 6

= 29

+Desperate Mercanary 3
= 32

And 6 SS for Collete in the End... :)

But a Dove is also a good choice... :)

[LoboStele]

i only end up purchasing a dove when im over the 8ss limit for 35ss
corphee x2 14ss
cassandra 9ss
performer 6ss
mech dove 2ss
situations like that, thatd put me to 9 ss without the dove.

This is the list I think I'm going to try next, either when my Cory's show up, or just by proxying them. Having only 1 Mannequin I'm not really sold on, and I really like using the Performers as meat shields and then giving Cassie Reactivate when they bite it. So having only 1 of each would but a damper on that. But I think this set up might work better overall.

[dakrulz55]

but the way i play i dont rely on tricks with manikins. i just use the preformers to debuff and slow peoples down for the heavy hitting peoples like cassandra and the duet. maby of splashing in a mech rider and steamfitter johan instead of the duet, but ill proxy first and see how it goes. also wanna try a gunslinger to help paralize people with supressive fire and good ranged support.

[Goldstep]

How about the really simple "If your opponent is shooting the showgirls he isn't shooting collete and if he is shooting collete she can blindingflash and run away to a showgirl."

I mean, it's not flashy but they work.

And if you need flashy and can get a performer within 6 inches of the ememy's master or henchman you can force them to burn SS just to keep you from getting them.
Expensive gift isn't that hard to cast and as long as they have to use resources to fight it, you are winning that little battle.

[88elite]

so the general idea i'm getting is run them forward a little and buff/de-buff then send in colette and cassandra for the clean up.

and another question. for the mannequins ss cost there is a dash. does that mean i need a performer to get one or can i just get an army of mannequins....not that i would.

[Iamwyrd]

When you buy a performer you get a mannaqeuin.

[Celenial]

They come in a pair, 6ss for the both. I don't I have my book but I don't even think the Mannequins have a cost, you can only get them if you buy a performer or with Collete's trigger.

Edit: Beaten to the punch :squint:

[Q'iq'el]

Colette's trigger isn't the most reliable way to get them either.


The way I see it, there's a reason you can buy Coryphée for 7 SS and opt out from the 14 SS Duet. That's precisely because you don't really need the hitting power of the Duet in smaller games.

In a way, single Coryphée provides 2/3 of the Duet power for 1/2 the price. The Duet makes sense when you face enough fire/muscle power to lose Coryphée in a single round of combat and need more wounds, but not in the smaller games where terrain and tricks is enough.

Performers bring Mannequins, utility, very solid spells, provide "waypoints" to teleport hard-hitters around and you still have Colette and Cassandra in the later role.

In other words, I'd rather take a single Coryphée and 2 performers than go with the Duet and a single performer.

[dakrulz55]

i just cant get over using the (0) self heal wich you only get from the duet, pluss only having 4 wd, there are alot of things that can do that dmg on min hit so i see them as glass without thier partner corphee.

[Q'iq'el]

i just cant get over using the (0) self heal wich you only get from the duet, pluss only having 4 wd, there are alot of things that can do that dmg on min hit so i see them as glass without thier partner corphee.

But that's the thing.

2 individual Coryphée are always better than one Duet. The Duet gives you only two advantages - Wound buffer and cheaper healing. (I consider stat increase minor thing and there's also a huge disadvantage of 50mm base).

Because regular Coryphée can still heal itself - Soul Dancer->Soulstone Healing flip. Sure, it costs 1AP extra and the soulstone, but you also get one more Expensive Gift with that extra performer and if you manage your Coryphée well, it won't be shot at all that often anyway.


In other words, the old rule of tabletop gaming kicks in - do you really need an ability that helps you only if you make a critical error? In the end, it's always better to practice and stop making the mistake, isn't it?



So if you are in a small game and you don't expect to see Mature Nephilim or Gunslinger on the table, do you really need that wound buffer? And if you do get hit by hard-hitters, is 8Wd buffer really going to save you?

Consider an individual Coryphée can hide behind the performers or the terrain so that magic and ranged attacks won't touch her (and she still is bulletproof and evasive)... It may be hard to hide in a big game, I agree, but in a small one it isn't really much of a problem.


The Duet has better Wp and Df, but it is also very hard to hide with that 50mm base. A single Coryphée is much easier to manage. Perhaps it's just my playstyle though - I've always argued for taking 2+ Young Nephilim in place of Matures for similar reason.


It's not like I've tested all the options and got any set-in-stone strategy for Colette at this point, but you gain a lot of advantage with her if you can be in many places at once. You need more showgirls for that, not less. Even if I brought 2 Coryphée, I'd probably run them apart most of the time. And I think I'll end up bringing the Duet only for games of 35SS or bigger.

[dakrulz55]

But that's the thing.

2 individual Coryphée are always better than one Duet. The Duet gives you only two advantages - Wound buffer and cheaper healing. (I consider stat increase minor thing and there's also a huge disadvantage of 50mm base).


It's not like I've tested all the options and got any set-in-stone strategy for Colette at this point, but you gain a lot of advantage with her if you can be in many places at once. You need more showgirls for that, not less. Even if I brought 2 Coryphée, I'd probably run them apart most of the time. And I think I'll end up bringing the Duet only for games of 35SS or bigger.

i guess thats what makes our playstyles different, because i use the duet as a distraction because most the people i play over dedicate things to kill it and the healing and stat buffs help with keeping it around as a distraction. also the duet gets to targets faster than a single corphee (esp targets that need to be gotten to asap like gunslinger and nino)

[Q'iq'el]

i guess thats what makes our playstyles different, because i use the duet as a distraction because most the people i play over dedicate things to kill it and the healing and stat buffs help with keeping it around as a distraction. also the duet gets to targets faster than a single corphee (esp targets that need to be gotten to asap like gunslinger and nino)

Sure, but we are talking about small games right? How many big shooters is the opponent going to have? How much of the table is he able to cover with his shooting lanes?

Especially if you bring enough terrain - 18~36 pieces is the recommendation in the books, right? Most of the time you don't have to deal with that Nino or Gunslinger at all - they'll have to work around terrain to get their shots unless you walk where they want you to be, which really means helping the other team.


Coryphée have lots of skills very useful for hiding and subtle approach. Because they don't charge, they don't need LoS or straight line to their target. Sure, it's good if you can reach your opponent, but one Disappearing Act and the Gunslinger is going to pop out right next to Colette. Does the Coryphée really have to run to him? Isn't it better to stay close to master and wait for her to bring the food home?

[88elite]

i was just looking for a way to benefit from the performers poison gift and came across the convict gunslinger. he has the potential to paralyze models or have the opponent discard cards.

now i'm not sure if trying to utilize the poison counters are the best of ideas but i think he can really boost the option of it. and his method of paralyzing models seems more reliable too.

[Goldstep]

I figure that the Poison Gift is for when you get Sirens call to work right. And of course if you have something fast, it works better on it.

"Oh no, the Insideous Madness and about 9 inches away. Oh well. Paralyse it and give it 4 poison counters. That will help."
The Convict Gunslinger would work as well, but there's no control card discarding to get out of it. And it never works at more than 7 inches from the performer.