Marshals or Stalkers?

[Gewehr91]

So I've been wanting to add to my ortega crew and really like the Death Marshals and Witchling Stalkers both, i get a kick out of the Stalkers Drain Magic trigger and ability to be kamikaze's yet at the same time i love the Marshal's models and fluff along with their anti-undead scheme, though i would like to know fluff wise what would make sense fluff wise to be following Perdita while Papa and Santiago are at home.
what would you take?

and on the note of the family i noticed that While Papa Loco is a coin flip on being taken i noticed that few to no one take santiago in their lists, and being a newb i'm not sure why?

[gunpowder saint]

this is a repeat thread but the over all theme is...

Stalkers: offense - combat 6, critical strike
Marshals: defense - hard to wound 1

[Gewehr91]

Sorry about the repeat, forgot to run it through the search, i don't post on here much

[Killionaire]

this is a repeat thread but the over all theme is...

Stalkers: offense - combat 6, critical strike
Marshals: defense - hard to wound 1

I'm sorry gunpowder saint, but in honor of your avatar...

GET OUT OF HERE STALKER.

Anyway, the theme really is. Do you want more shooting? Marshalls. Melee? Stalkers.

[nilus]

this is a repeat thread but the over all theme is...

Stalkers: offense - combat 6, critical strike
Marshals: defense - hard to wound 1

Marshals also have critical strike and a built in Ram with there guns.

fluff wise either work. You can assume LJ or Cridd sent some men to keep an eye on what the Ortegas were doing. Maybe do some cross training.

[TimeLapse]

To tell you the truth stalkers are ten times more useful in an ortaga list, first they have two really good abilities, hunter and scout. those alone make it beter then the marshal. next they have a great melee ablity and a magic denying skill. pluss there good in melee and have a sword that can do 3 damage garanteed on weak and possably 4 with a rams so there damage output is high. also they take less damage against magic and can reflect it. also they blow up when killed how cool is that? the stalkers just have more to offer and are more flexable then the death marshals anyday.

hope this helps,
-Andrew

[Goldstep]

Does it help to ask who opponents for you commonly are?
I fight very few undead so some of the Marshal's rules don't come into play for me. Victorias still have to worry worry about stalkers and so does Rasputina and Pandora.
Suddenly, Stalkers look really good.

But I know that right now McMourning, Seamus, Nicoderm and Levi are are 4 separate painting tables for new players in my area...
Suddenly those Marshalls are going to look a little cooler -- no corpse counters for the graverobbers to eat.

[AvatarForm]

To tell you the truth stalkers are ten times more useful in an ortaga list, first they have two really good abilities, hunter and scout. those alone make it beter then the marshal. next they have a great melee ablity and a magic denying skill. pluss there good in melee and have a sword that can do 3 damage garanteed on weak and possably 4 with a rams so there damage output is high. also they take less damage against magic and can reflect it. also they blow up when killed how cool is that? the stalkers just have more to offer and are more flexable then the death marshals anyday.

hope this helps,
-Andrew

+1, and thanks for the explanations guys.

Also, this thread may help a few people:
http://www.wyrd-games.net/forum/showthread.php?t=14791

[paradox]

You'd have to pry my marshals from my cold, dead fingers.
The stalkers are nifty, but just don't do it for me. Plus I've had my marshals pile out plenty o damage, so they do offense just fine IMO.

[Whatsicle]

I don't see what's better in the stalkers over Marshals. Sure they have one higher CB, but since the marshals already come with critical strike and decent damage... As a general rule, unless you know you're playing against someone whose models have lots of spells (or if you flip the thing where the entire freaking board is severe terrain), I don't see the need for stalkers.

That said I still own a billion of them (slight exaggeration) because of the great Stalker-Health-Plan Criid offers. What's that, one health left marshal? Have a robe and broken sword!

Also, pine boxing is hilarious if you manage to get it off. Sorry McMorning, you're staying in that box for the rest of the game. Hard to get someone in a box, but once they're in their box there, they're staying!

(That was a lot of 'theres' I typed. There there. :( )

[paradox]

Just a note: I have tried LIKE MAD!!!!!!!!! (like, Mel Gibson mad....) to get Pine Box to work. Even just once! The last time I tried, I dropped a Red Joker on the cast...it still failed.

After that, I quit.

Pine Box is a totally worthless ability, unless you want to pack your own guys up (which is fairly cheesy and only something I'd do in a tournie). It's too bad, but you are better off just forgetting they even have it. After a dozen or so games of trying, it has only left me bitter, disillusioned and disappointed.

[Whatsicle]

Well yes. It's rare. But worth it! I mean, there is the downside of the Marshal's crappy CA (18 with a red joker. Really? Really. >( )

But, you save that 13 or joker for the cast and wait until your opponent is out of cards in hand.. or down to one, when you can usually assume that's their low card. Masters are a bit trickier, since you have to make them spend SS AND their cards, but.. when you get it done, it's glorious. Absolutely worth the nine thousand times prior you failed to cast it, just for the look on their face. Especially when you box an undead, and they're looking at going against your WP 8 to get out.

[paradox]

The problem I have is that by the time the enemy master is down on stones, Justice has just cut them down...
And I have a habit of blowing my high cards out each round in a hail of shots. :)

[Issalbotproto]

Pine Box is amazing, turn 6 obey marshal to charge master, activate marashal pine box and hope they fail to get out of the box at turn end, win for assassinate, I've done it twice, it's so awesome to pull off, I love my Marshals so much, plus they can't be saced, burried, hard to wound 1 AND SLOOOOOW TOOOOOO DDDIIIIIEEEEEEEEEEE is so epic on so many levels...

I like slow to die doing a "finish the job" to boost marshal's melee around him to attack harder...

[paradox]

Pine Box is amazing, turn 6 obey marshal to charge master, activate marashal pine box and hope they fail to get out of the box at turn end, win for assassinate, I've done it twice, it's so awesome to pull off, I love my Marshals so much, plus they can't be saced, burried, hard to wound 1 AND SLOOOOOW TOOOOOO DDDIIIIIEEEEEEEEEEE is so epic on so many levels...

I like slow to die doing a "finish the job" to boost marshal's melee around him to attack harder...
With your massive cast of 4, how exactly are you proposing to stuff a master in the box in the 1st place?

Hope they have no stones and no high cards in their hand?

[Issalbotproto]

With your massive cast of 4, how exactly are you proposing to stuff a master in the box in the 1st place?

Hope they have no stones and no high cards in their hand?

it's not that hard of a goal cap'n, how often do you see a master with all its soul stones at the end of a game?? between that, a high crow in hand and a bad draw it's really not that hard to do

It's the same way ramos can hit Perdita's 8df with a 3cb clockwork fist

[paradox]

it's not that hard of a goal cap'n, how often do you see a master with all its soul stones at the end of a game?? between that, a high crow in hand and a bad draw it's really not that hard to do

It's the same way ramos can hit Perdita's 8df with a 3cb clockwork fist
They don't need all of them, just one stone is enough to stop it.
Ca4 vs average Wp of 6-8 on a master. They just need one decent card of any suit to resist. It can be lower than your crow, because theer is a decent chance they have a stone left, if necessary, to stop it.

Frankly, as I've stated, I've never once managed it on ANY model, despite trying very hard. I've played games where my whole purpose was to box a model: any model!
Didn't work.

[Issalbotproto]

They don't need all of them, just one stone is enough to stop it.
Ca4 vs average Wp of 6-8 on a master. They just need one decent card of any suit to resist. It can be lower than your crow, because theer is a decent chance they have a stone left, if necessary, to stop it.

Frankly, as I've stated, I've never once managed it on ANY model, despite trying very hard. I've played games where my whole purpose was to box a model: any model!
Didn't work.

well, I'm sorry the cards hate you so much; I however can get it to work, and in fact, keep the models buried

[GuySmiley]

I completely agree that you can't count on Pine box to happen. However, If I stumble across a 12 or 13 of crows in my hand I do tend to hold on to them and wait for the opportunity to box someone. This is extra nice if you are running the gov. proxy.

The first model I ever did this to was Bete Noire. It was a good way to keep her from being one with the night. (and the difference between my cast and her res is only 1. Additionally I have an abundance of Ortega at my lgs. It really is a great way to deal with papa.

Masters are a bit silly to try and box and really if your trying to do it then either the main plan failed and your back against a wall or your just adding injury to insult.

Really it comes down to how well does your opponent use cover? If they use it well then the stalkers are great. On the other hand if you like to go toe to toe then marshal are the better choice as they will take the hits and when they die they can potentially toss out more damage.

[studderingdave]

after trying both for a few games i like the stalkers more for my aggressive playstyle. in a gun heavy force i find thier CC skills to be a good counter weight, and their 2 point explosion when they die also help lot.

[paradox]

well, I'm sorry the cards hate you so much; I however can get it to work, and in fact, keep the models buried
Kinda hard to say the cards hate me. I dropped a Red Joker on the cast (cast total of 18, highest you can get) and it still failed.

I'm curious how many masters you've Boxed though, and why they didn't simply cheat/stone it away.

[Issalbotproto]

Kinda hard to say the cards hate me. I dropped a Red Joker on the cast (cast total of 18, highest you can get) and it still failed.

I'm curious how many masters you've Boxed though, and why they didn't simply cheat/stone it away.

if you obey a marshal to charge at a master, have that marshal activate last, when you're opponent has an empty hand and no soulstones left being that it's turn 6 it can happen, why must I keep having to say that? I've boxed a vicky twice, and a mcmourning (also I run an executioner and Nino, they empty hands wonderfully with head shot and decapitate)

[Whatsicle]

My Story of Boxing a Master
By Whatsicle

Or, Tactica involving both Withling Stalkers and Death Marshals disguised as sillyness

A friend of mine absolutely fell in love with McMorning, after having a difficult time with Ramos. As none of us had seen anyone else play that crazy surgeon before, most of our (the community's) masters fall to well aimed dissections and his most hated 'Master Surgeon.' So, the player was feeling pretty awesome about his more or less undefeated master and decided 'Hey, there's two death marshals over there staring at the treasure, I bet I can kill both of them with some ol' Scalpel Slingin'!" He did, as I recall, kill one of my devoted death marshals without even the courtesy of waiting until he had his pension. The other was saved by either a high flip on his part or a poor hand on the other player's, but either way played no further part in this paragraph.
Here's where the boxing happened!
My counter attack was swift and merciless, with my figures' tiny lead hearts heavy with the responsibility of avenging their fallen comrade. The Witchling Stalkers I sent in to collect blood-vengeance were, of course, thwarted by McMorning and his amazing Df 4 spending SS and control cards like mad to narrowly avoid broken swords to his kidneys. The lone surviving death marshal from the prior paragraph finally went, then, emboldened by his chance to claim some glory for himself. 'Haha,' he (I) declared in a terrible Austin Powers impersonation, 'Get in mah box!' A 13! Poor McMorning was out of high cards, and his SS just wasn't enough. Into the box he went, while the still nameless Death Marshal Who Lived spent the remainder of the encounter running in fear from any and everything.

Fin.

-

The above information condensed and without the attack on literacy:
Why not take -both- Death Marshals and Witchlings? The witchlings are a great way to get an enemy master to burn up high cards and SS, especially if they haven't activated yet and fear that spell-shattering sword! Then, when their guard is down, obey in a marshal and stick them in a tiny coffin.

[Issalbotproto]

That post made me smile... My marshals have names...

[AvatarForm]

That post made me smile... My marshals have names...

Good to hear. Slap up some pics of your crew in the Mini Showcase forum.

[Daniele]

As I want to start a LJ Crew as well in the next days I'm happy to have found this threat.
After reading it I must say I'd also prefer the version with both: witchlings and deathmarshalls!
They are so cheap, in an ordinary 25-30 ss game you can get plenty of both i guess and maybe an austringer, so you can try to use distract (place top 3 discards on opponents deck in any order!) and deliver orders (allow a model within 24" to activate right after the austringer) to maximize your chances of boxing a weakend character/master.

So maybe something like that would be a nice variant?

Lady Justice
3 Marshals
2 Witchlings
2 Austringers (for many many activations per turn)

[Issalbotproto]

Good to hear. Slap up some pics of your crew in the Mini Showcase forum.

Alas, my painting is a very minimal one coat, "look I painted them" kinda thing, I don;t really have the time to sit down and paint...

[readerrayne]

I've been wondering about the Marshals and Witchling as I've been eyeing a Guild crew (Perdita in my case). Good information. I believe I'll invest in both.

[alemon]

I've been wondering about the Marshals and Witchling as I've been eyeing a Guild crew (Perdita in my case). Good information. I believe I'll invest in both.


If you're playing perdita, just play her with her family. : )

It's the way they would want it.

[Issalbotproto]

well, I usually drop Papa for a Death Marshal when I need range output, specially when against anything that does wp duels