Thoughts on Book 2 (spoilers on models)

[wrabbit37]

Quick thoughts about the Neverborn models. Just got my book yesterday and finally got a chance to look over the finalized rules for everything. A little background on me as a player – I favor Lilith and the Old Hag as my favorites. I actually dislike playing Pandora, mostly because I find her playstyle pretty boring. She does all the heavy lifting, and the rest of the crew just sits around.

Also, I did manage to play this stuff in the beta test, so I have some experience using them. At least in their non-finalized versions. By and large, that experience should carry over.

So, without further adieu, the new models:

Dreamer/Lord Chompy Bits – I love this master. I love the teleportation aspect to him, and the mass movement you can get with him. Being able to have a model on one side of the board suddenly disappear and reappear on the other side of the board is a nice surprise. Good for scenarios as well as you can move your models around as you need to. Lord Chompy Bits is insane in melee, but he’s fragile, so make sure you don’t try to strike the entire opposing army with him. Just hit the outlying pieces, and then disappear again. The Dreamer’s decently well defended if you’re careful with him.

Daydream – The totem for the Dreamer is pretty much what you’d want. He helps get you out of a bind if your burying/unburying mechanic needs a boost. Overall, not absolutely necessary for the Dreamer, but he’s a decent boost. He does have a 12” ranged attack, though, which is something we don’t generally get a lot of in Neverborn.

Collodi and Marionette – I admit I don’t really like our Henchman that much, but mostly because there’s a lack of support for him at the moment. On the other hand, his fluff is awesome and I can’t want to see what the model looks like. The special forces feels like it’s going to be a swarm if the Marionette and Wicked Doll are any indication.

Alp – Our cheap nightmare model to match our Terror Tots and our Sorrows. He’s a nice control piece, not doing a lot of damage but stacking up some nice slow effects.

Black Blood Shaman – The Nephilim sorcerer type. Makes growing a little easier by getting a bit more blood, and can use spells to boost your other Nephilim. Also, he’s a graverobber and can fuel his own spells with corpses as well as blood. I like him a lot, and look forward to trying him in Lilith lists.

Coppelius – This guy’s just fun on a bun. A solid 10 wound model (though 9 stones) who can cause Willpower checks whenever he steals someone’s eye. Which he does a lot. He has a spell that essentially creates a check or the opponent falls back. He gets an eye if he does that. Whenever he gets an eye, living models within 3” must WP check or fall back. If anyone loses a Moral Duel within 4” of him, they take 3 wounds in addition to falling back. A whole wonderful chain of terror. Oh, and he’s terrifying.

Insidious Madness – Another ranged attack for Neverborn, but again with little damage. More slow-stuff though. He can make people who are falling back have to continue to test against WP in order to rally rather than automatically doing it. Things need to succeed in WP duels when attacking it or they get penalties. It can target WP instead of DF with its weapon. All in all, a great model for Pandora to stack in more WP checks, and not that expensive either.

Lelu – One of the two Nephilim siblings, this guy’s essentially a vampire. He can bite you and heal what damage he deals. He deals 2 damage to a single model around him at the close phase, no resist. He’s got poisoned claws and is a really solid fighter.

Lilitu – The sister of the pair, she’s got Lure and 4” reach. She’s kinda the opposite of her brother. She can heal a single model that starts within 2” of her 2 wounds. She can summon a Lelu out of another Nephilim, similar to Lelu summoning another Lilitu out of another Nephilim (and some blood). They both start dying pretty quickly if there’s not their counterpart on the table.

Nekima, the Dark Sibling – Ah, Malifaux’s Revenge. Clocking in at 13 soulstones, I think we’ve found the most expensive model in the game, and man, she’s good. Not quite as much damage as a Mature, but more reach and more abilities to stack off your other Nephilim. Makes it easier to Grow and Mature, heals nearby Nephilim, carries a greatsword, is Instinctual and a Melee Expert, and has a trigger going off every time she hits with her weapon. Plus, the art is just really cool.

Stitched Together – These guys are a lot of fun. They’re a decent price, and can really help with card advantage if you’re willing to risk a little. Ditch a card and there’s a chance your opponent will have to ditch one while you draw two. Got an okay damage spell too. Probably better to use that than his melee weapon most times given he’s better at casting and has a better range with it.

Wicked Doll – A replacement for Voodoo Dolls if you like. Plus, it doesn’t ditch any Voodoo Dolls or other Wicked Dolls you’ve got out there if you summon it. Overall it’s hard to hit but easy to kill, and has a few fun tricks. It can summon more of itself if it kills anything, and can blow up to do a little damage to something near it. For a free summon, it’s probably worth it.

So that’s all I have for the moment. I’d love to hear if anyone else has any thoughts on these guys.

[ProdigalPunk]

I bet there are a 1000 other people that wished you played their faction instead. Nice post though, not super revealing but still rather insightful.

[Nutcase168]

wow, could you do this kind of write up for the other factions? There is a serious lack of information out there right now :worship:

[wrabbit37]

wow, could you do this kind of write up for the other factions? There is a serious lack of information out there right now :worship:

I can do my best. I don't know the other factions quite as well as Neverborn, so I'll try. Which one is yours? I'll start with that one next.

[Nutcase168]

Thanks, I'm mainly an outcast player (Levi)

[Sliver Chocobo]

Nekima, the Dark Sibling – Ah, Malifaux’s Revenge. Clocking in at 13 soulstones, I think we’ve found the most expensive model in the game, and man, she’s good. Not quite as much damage as a Mature, but more reach and more abilities to stack off your other Nephilim. Makes it easier to Grow and Mature, heals nearby Nephilim, carries a greatsword, is Instinctual and a Melee Expert, and has a trigger going off every time she hits with her weapon. Plus, the art is just really cool.

Does she still add masks to the cast of all nephiim If so sfe make an combo with the cherb and the terror tot, the tot sprints forwards a between 15' to 25' then the chreb swaps the terrortot and Nekima/mature around where it smashes the nearist model to peaces ^_^

[wrabbit37]

Does she still add masks to the cast of all nephiim If so sfe make an combo with the cherb and the terror tot, the tot sprints forwards a between 15' to 25' then the chreb swaps the terrortot and Nekima/mature around where it smashes the nearist model to peaces ^_^

As a (0) she can add a Mask to all Nephilim within 6", to one of their stats (WP, CA, DF, CB).

[Rathnard]

As a (0) she can add a Mask to all Nephilim within 6", to one of their stats (WP, CA, DF, CB).

Now that is freaking brutal! You can use it to auto-trigger flay, sprint your terror tots 10-15" per AP, or (IIRC) grow them more easily. I anticipate more than a few people trying Nekima plus a horde of terror tots. :D

[ilikepizza]

Damn you!!! I wish i had the new book :sad2:
cheers for the write up though, certainly gives some insight
although iam starting to worry about all these cool models, how am I supposed to fit them all into only 30 ss. Oh well, i can't complain about not having enough choice at least.

[ilikepizza]

wait (sorry about doble post) lilith counts as a nephilim, does that mean nekima can give her a mask onto her casting stat so she can reliably ast transposition three times in one turn?(!)

[dakrulz55]

non masters only, insert sad face. but she does have the ability to auto pick up blood counters instead of spending a zero wheb she kills peoples wich she does extremly whell btw.

[deadboy]

Wow that's awesome. That makes growing boys very happy.

[ilikepizza]

:( damn, oh well, i sppose 3 reliable transpositions a turn would be just a tad unfair... on the note of blood counters, does the blood shaman generate bloodcounters in a similar way to mortimer producing corpse counters? I'm just wondering if its going to be worth taking yong nephilim, i mean, sure, nikam is expensive, but if she lets you grow about 3-4 terror tots reliabley then i think shed definitely show her worth, even before the killing begins :D

[Mephguour]

I only wish I had realized book 2 was only available at GenCon last weekend ...

[dgraz]

I only wish I had realized book 2 was only available at GenCon last weekend ...
Its still in the online store.

[Sliver Chocobo]

Now that is freaking brutal! You can use it to auto-trigger flay, sprint your terror tots 10-15" per AP, or (IIRC) grow them more easily. I anticipate more than a few people trying Nekima plus a horde of terror tots. :D

+4cas to all nepililm casting grow as well ^_^


wait (sorry about doble post) lilith counts as a nephilim, does that mean nekima can give her a mask onto her casting stat so she can reliably ast transposition three times in one turn?(!)

4 times don't forget the chreb, that's a nepilim as well ^_^

[ilikepizza]

wow. just, wow. Nekima sounds amazing, i suspect though, she won't sound so amazing when we here what shenanigans the other factions will be getting up to.

[wrabbit37]

Seems there's a bit of interest in Nekima, so I'll talk a bit more about her. She's got the WK/CH, HT, WP and DF of a Mature, two more wounds, and two less cast without the (Mask). She has 3" reach with a 1 better CB and 3/4/6 damage.

She's got no Armor, but she does have Regeneration and gives it to all Nephilim around her. She gives Nephilim +4 when trying to Grow or Mature. She gains blood whenever any living/Undead model is killed within 3" of her, regardless of whether she's doing the killing. She can move towards anyone nearby that killed a Nephilim. She Flies, you've got to beat her in a WP->WP duel to target her, and she debuffs enemy WP when they're defending (doesn't stack with the WP->WP duel, though, since enemies are not defending in that instance).

Her Greatsword gives the normal (+) to damage as well as giving any suit to the duel's total. That helps with her four triggers, ensuring that one of them goes off each turn. She's got Lilith's Bloody Fate, the Mature's Rip in Half, and then two others, one that tosses models and does more damage if they hit terrain, and another that pushes the target closer to other Nephilim.

She's a melee expert and instinctual. She can take four wounds to gain a blood token (the Shaman can do this too) as a (0). Her other (0)s are to give a Non-Master nephilim Flight, to give all non-Master Nephilim a (Mask) added to their WP, CA, DF or CB within 6", or to be able to spill hers or another Nephilim's blood in order to trigger black-blood on enemies nearby at a 2-for-1 rate with a cap at 6 wounds to the Nephilim.

Overall, she's pretty solid, but she's still fragile. Twelve wounds is hefty, but only 4 DF and no Armor to protect her means she's not going to be shrugging off a lot of hits. Irresistible helps some with the WP checks, and she's got a solid WP to protect herself, but a few solid hits will still crack her. Don't expect to be able to throw her up to the front and survive anything that hits her.

[Wodschow]

Sound GOO-d :D

Had hoped for her to be somewhat tougher like Lilith, but I suppose the Wp duels can go a long way for that.

Definetly going to join her sister :)

[Sliver Chocobo]

I don't know thing have changed, but the beta Nekima greatword was paired and had wicked, i belive had armour 1 (although that has changed)

[wrabbit37]

I don't know thing have changed, but the beta Nekima greatword was paired and had wicked, i belive had armour 1 (although that has changed)

Nope. Not paired, not wicked, not armor 1. Must have changed.

[ilikepizza]

no worries about her being fragile, i'm sure all of us neverborn players will just use the same way of getting matures into cc with nikam, grow wood, fly behind wood diving charge over wood :D

with a 13" combat range on the charge (10 plus 3 inh sword) I'm sure shell be fine, plus, you can always fly 3 times melee expert, transpose, throw in earthquakes etc...

but she sounds like alot of fun (which she orta be if shes costing 13 ss!)

@wrabbit37-you said she gets blood counters whenever a living or undead model is killed within 3". What if a living or undead model is killed within 3" but another nephilim uses drain blood? do they both get a counter or just the neph who drains blood?

also, could you tell us a little about the black blood shaman, i just like the idea of it, being a lilith player, the idea of a model dedicated to a support role is strange-unless ive got the wrong end of the stick here

[ilikepizza]

do people not find it a bit 'wyrd' (sorry, couldn't resist :P) that Nikam has more synergy with nephilim than their actual master??

I'm just going to guess that this is because this book was written (obviously) after the first one so they had more time to develop ideas like alot of nikam's abilities that were mentioned.

[Sliver Chocobo]

do people not find it a bit 'wyrd' (sorry, couldn't resist :P) that Nikam has more synergy with nephilim than their actual master??

I'm just going to guess that this is because this book was written (obviously) after the first one so they had more time to develop ideas like alot of nikam's abilities that were mentioned.

A Little, I would love lilith to fly like other nepilim (I gave lilith has the wings of a chreb)

That and the regeration abilty that Nikam has as well as her to be terrifying

But i know that asking for a lot and she is all ready a very powerful master

[eusebe]

Well initially, Lillith didn't need to fly, for her, the battlefield was juste a field, and she ignored all that was on it. Since that, well, bad things happened

[thaehl]

She really does seem solid, when I read her entry in the book I gained the same impression she is so fragile but all in all not a lot softer than a mature, I see plenty of potential but is it 13SS worth of potential we'll just have to test it out wont we?

[Sliver Chocobo]

In a 35 soulstone crew i'm thinking if using
Lilith
Nikam X13
Lelu X7
Litilu X7
Chreb X2 can't rember the exatic amount but i'm sure it's 2
and 2 terror tots X6

First turn will about slowly moving into play and Nikam killing the terror tot getting two blood counter (i'm sure one of her many (0) involve her taking so much many wounds to get a blood counter if not blood from stone) so i can fully mature my other terror tot

that or simply go with
Lilith
Nikam X13
Mature X 10
Chreb X2 can't rember the exatic amount but i'm sure it's 2
and 3 terror tots X9

Edit

I did come up with a better idea of

Lilith
4 terror tots
Nikam
Litilu
and a chreb
witch make either 34/35 soulstones depemding on the cost to chreb

by killing the two terror tots i can get four blood counter enough to mature a terror tot and make a Lelu out of the other

Any adivice on this would be helpful thanks

[ilikepizza]

well, killing that many tots might not be necesary, after all, you can inflict four wounds on nikam for a blood ounter, providing you do this 1st turn, she should be fine, after all she does have regen, also, i'd be tempted to keep the tots alive, just because if you use her (0) action to give all nephs within 6" an extra mask, then theyll be growing on a 5 or more on any suit (so you could sprint for a 10-15 inch move then grow). also, if you inted on just killing the terror tots, dont take em,.

I'd suggest this

Lilith
3 tots
cherub
Nikam
lilitu
(btw, cherub is 2) i think that adds to 31?

that means lilith maxes out on ss, so, 1st turn goes something like this

Nikam sacrifies 4 wounds, gains 1 counter, and then does 6" mask aura thingy
Lilith does blood from stone using 4 ss and gets 2 blood counters.
That means you have 3 blood counters straight off the bat, and nikam will regen those wounds in a few turns, so you can choose to grow all the terror
tots in one go, or grow some and summon lelu.

hope that helps.

also, think of it like this, youngs cost 6 ss
terrotots cost 3
it costs 2 ss. for lilith to blood from stone, which means, with Nikam, it is now completely feasible to get young nephilim for 5ss by growing them.

I've been doing this for a while now, but Nikam is gonna make it way easier by giving out the extra mask and the plus 4 to grow/mature castings

[goblyn13]

I think you all are forgetting the Black Blood Shaman, he's the true Nephilim support model.

[Sliver Chocobo]

That is true ilikepizza, however Nikam gains blood whenever any living/Undead model is killed within 3" of her, regardless of whether she's doing the killing, so killing a terror tot + drain blood gets two blood countes for 3 soul stone, so killing four of them gets me 4 blood counters for six soulstones if i used blood from stone that would have costed me eight soulstones and to summon lelu, i need a blood counter
How thanks for the input

and goblin13, i think he costs eght i and dont have enough points to run him (we play to 35 soulstones)

[dgraz]

do people not find it a bit 'wyrd' (sorry, couldn't resist :P) that Nikam has more synergy with nephilim than their actual master??

I'm just going to guess that this is because this book was written (obviously) after the first one so they had more time to develop ideas like alot of nikam's abilities that were mentioned.
It's also fluff-related. Many of the Neverborn took forms that would help them blend in with the human population.

[goblyn13]

First, its Nekima.

Second when you read the fluff, you'll find that Nekima and Lilith are sisters, Lilith was just a bit more conniving and manipulative with Nekima, was more blood, guts and gore.

[ilikepizza]

ok, i suppose they both make sense, however, I do think my original theory has something to do with it, being entirely honest, I'm not too bothered, I actually reckon that odds are that Lilith was made so she didn't give any huge benefits to her crew as she isn't a support master, more just a master to learn the game with and ultimately rip peoples faces off with (since rules wise you can kind of tell shes a stand alone model, as apposed to collette for instance). And, I think Nekima should be a better face tearer, after all, she is essentially like lilith mixed with a mature nephilim.

Besides, if Lilith were any better than she already is, I'm sure my local gaming club would march over to Wyrd's headquaters wielding pitch forks and torches.

@sliverchocobo-damn, thats a really soul stone efficient ay of growing, why didn't I think of that...

any way, that almost tempts me to do this list (30 ss)

Lilith-
Cherub 2
5xTerror tot 15
Nekima 13

adds up to 30 ss, do what you mentioned, (ie something like lilith bitchslaps terror tot, drains blood, nekima also drains blood). Then activate nekima, dump masks on everyones casting within 6", take 4 wounds off to get a blood counter, then sprint all the remaining tots (for a min of 10") and grow 3 of them straight off the bat.

the only problem with a crew like this is:

1, you have to buy 2 blisters of terror tots
2, you have to buy 2 blisters of young neph
3, you have to buy 2 blisters of mature neph

since this is probably the most likely list where you will end up having 2 matures on the board by the end of the game, starting from tots.

well, i give you credit sir:worship:, your tot slaying idea is genius :D...and will be stolen...:suspiciou

[icemantis99]

That is true ilikepizza, however Nikam gains blood whenever any living/Undead model is killed within 3" of her, regardless of whether she's doing the killing, so killing a terror tot + drain blood gets two blood countes for 3 soul stone, so killing four of them gets me 4 blood counters for six soulstones if i used blood from stone that would have costed me eight soulstones and to summon lelu, i need a blood counter
How thanks for the input

and goblin13, i think he costs eght i and dont have enough points to run him (we play to 35 soulstones)
Unfortunately, as of Book 2, a model can no longer produce more counters/effects than it's base size (30mm=1, 40mm=2, 50mm=3) upon being killed/sacrificed.
So killing a terror tot nets you one single Blood Counter, I think.
its the "Rule of Equivalency", pg. 34 of Book 2.

[ilikepizza]

@icemantis-wait...this makes me the genius?(!):twitch:

well, i supose that makes sense, otherwise it would be a tad bent, so, i suppose my list may look more like this...

lilith
cherub
4 tots
nikam

that'll leave me on a starting total of 7ss, so, i can blood from stone once, bleed 4 wounds of nikam once, and eat another terror tot and the grow the three remaining ones.

plus, this does end up leaving lilith with a not too shabby 5 soul stones.

on a side note, i find it rather amusing that Wyrd has a smiley for canabis.

edit: actually, ive just realised that eating a tot to grow it is in no way shape or form beneficial, I may as well just start with three tots and a young nephilim, or, 3 tots and either lilitu or lelu, can someone tell me a little more about them? I'm not asking for solid stat lines etc, but stuff like saying it has a stat line similar to such and such and maybe giving some insight into a fe abilities would be cool. Its just I have to find appropriate proxies for a tourney thats gonna be happening soon, and I plan on spending alot of time painting my models (for example, lilith took me four days to paint-addmittedly, I didn't solidly paint her for four days but you catch my drift) this also means i don't need another blister of terror tots. YAY!!!!
(actually, thats a pain in the ass, cos i already gave the money to my mate yesterday to buy me more terrortots and i have no way of contacting him, balls, oh well nvm, an never have too much of a good thing)

ofc to fit lelu OR lilitu in, id have to drop the cherub, is it worth doing for that? from what ive gathered, if you have one, you can summon the other, which is very, very nice, and all in all probably worth the sacrifice.

I also like the sound o f this black blood shaman too...

[icemantis99]

Nekima. Three syllables. Personally, I tried a run with her, and I had Lilith in the back slapping down 1 Tot, then growing another (Just remember to position the tots within 10" of Nekima to get the easy grow ability.) while Nekima murdered what she could out front. It let me send Young into the fray so that nekima didn't get slaughtered, and then the next turn Mature them with the Counters Nekima had picked up the round before. It's was a pretty good assembly-line, made easier by the fact that if anything tried to outposition me, Nekima just used Growth Spurt and my whole army flew across the board to reposition.
Worked out pretty well!

[ilikepizza]

sounds very much like nekima is gonna be great, and will likely push many peoples mature nephilim out the list to acomadate points for her, perhaps wyrd will use this as a reason to release nekima in november or december, after all, nekima would make a good christmas present...of course, theres cookies in it for eric and nathan if they make it happen...

Anywho, I swear your just torturing me ice mantis damn you! :D

can you just give me something to work off of with lilitu and lelu, even if its just telling me how to summon the other one onto the field, I just imagine, for 7 ss, they must have some nice abilities.

ahh...you spotted my 'puzzle', I was trying to make an anagram to see if anyone could solve it and left out the e...errr..well done i guess. I did it completely on purpose:suspiciou

[Sliver Chocobo]

Unfortunately, as of Book 2, a model can no longer produce more counters/effects than it's base size (30mm=1, 40mm=2, 50mm=3) upon being killed/sacrificed.
So killing a terror tot nets you one single Blood Counter, I think.
its the "Rule of Equivalency", pg. 34 of Book 2.

I'm going to need to read the exact wording on this rule, drain blood and Nekima's ability. i'm still disapointed by this:sad2:

Edit : Now thinking about it when killing a model it doesn't generate blood counters as such, but there gain through the (0) drain blood, or via Nekima's, also think of this way, there is graverobber on the table, one of my nepililm kills another model, it generates corpse conters, since it made the corpse counter it can't make any other type of counter, so does this negate drain blood altogeter?

[meechelley]

Unfortunately, as of Book 2, a model can no longer produce more counters/effects than it's base size (30mm=1, 40mm=2, 50mm=3) upon being killed/sacrificed.
So killing a terror tot nets you one single Blood Counter, I think.
its the "Rule of Equivalency", pg. 34 of Book 2.

Another question about this rule, so if one of my tots die with, lets say 2, counters on it.. do they not drop the 2 anymore and will only drop 1? Or am I reading it wrong and produce means any counters/effects that have not yet been materialized and the tot will still drop the 2 counters it carried?

[Sliver Chocobo]

Another question about this rule, so if one of my tots die with, lets say 2, counters on it.. do they not drop the 2 anymore and will only drop 1? Or am I reading it wrong and produce means any counters/effects that have not yet been materialized and the tot will still drop the 2 counters it carried?

Unfortunity blood countes don't work in the same way corpse and scrape counters work, when a model carry one dies so does the blood counter, it's why before book two i have never tried to activly grow or mature my nepilim :(

[icemantis99]

Effects are generated by closest model in range. So a model that triggered drain blood would leave 1 less corpse counter than usual.

[Sliver Chocobo]

Effects are generated by closest model in range. So a model that triggered drain blood would leave 1 less corpse counter than usual.

Nope the corpse counters drop immendity while drain blood is a (0) done after the corpse counters have been dropped

[Wodschow]

Then Nephilim are suddenly rather brutal against Ressurectionists.. Humm..

What about McMournings Dissection? And weird counters like Joss' (guess those are not affected as they are generated from strikes and not deaths).


Edit: Different people say different things now ¬_¬

Edit edit: Nekima's ability isn't a (0), right?

[wrabbit37]

Unfortunity blood countes don't work in the same way corpse and scrape counters work, when a model carry one dies so does the blood counter, it's why before book two i have never tried to activly grow or mature my nepilim :(

I don't think that's true - they're still counters.

http://wyrd-games.net/forum/showthread.php?t=11275&highlight=blood+counters

Was there another ruling to flip this one around?

[wrabbit37]

Then Nephilim are suddenly rather brutal against Ressurectionists.. Humm..

What about McMournings Dissection? And weird counters like Joss' (guess those are not affected as they are generated from strikes and not deaths).


Edit: Different people say different things now ¬_¬

Edit edit: Nekima's ability isn't a (0), right?

I put up a couple questions about the Rule of Equivelancy on the rules board. Hopefully it will get a little clarification there.

http://wyrd-games.net/forum/showthread.php?t=14433

[Extinction Angel]

Lelu and Lilitu function as a pair. If one is in play but not the opposite one, it starts taking Wds. But they do have mechanics to summon each other back in play.

The Lelu is combat oriented and the Lilitu is a caster. They heal each other as well and can companion regardless of distance. Both are pretty decent at their professions. Lilitu has Lure and gets a bonus to cast or channel it.

That should be a decently vague overview of how they work.

[Inquisitor Wall]

Is it just me or does the concept art for stitched together look like oogi boogi from Nightmare Before Christmas (one of my favorite movies, so Im excited).

[ilikepizza]

thanks for that extinction angel. I was wondering, do you have to have both of the models to start off with, or can you start with one but not the other and then summon the other?

[Extinction Angel]

You can start with just one of them on the table. it's easier to summon a Lelu than a Lilitu.

I had a chance today to give them a spin and WOW. I was impressed. I dropped two young Nephilim from my list for these guys and they have some nasty voodoo. At one point my Lelu was down to a couple health and within two turns was back at full health.