Models...

[Dark_Trainer]

How the heck do you beat Pandora! I've been slaughtered twice now by Pandora and basically all my guys keep killing themselves! Even Nico's ability to use zombie fodder is denied because the WP duel isn't an attack, etc?

I have 4 canines, 2 flesh constructs, Bette, Nico, Mortimer, vulture, 3 punk zombies, convict gunslinger and that's it for now.

I'm thinking about replacing the canines with necropunks since they can be used for objectives too. Maybe 2 canins and 2 necros.

Maybe I'm not playing Nico at his strongest (still getting used to him), but against certain masters there just seems to be no way to open the can...while they have the can opener...

[jmp_mydog]

You have to kill all the sorrows first. Don't focus on Pandora until you do. Second The Hanged can help take her down fairly quickly. Seamus does a better job the Nicodem since he can reduce her Wp.

[Headcase2]

Well, playing that list you have a couple of possible weapons against Pandora, but it's going to be tough regardless.
1) You should be able to out-activate her with resurrectionists. You likely have more models than your opponent if you don't go for all the expensive guys (2 constructs, Morty AND Betty... that's a lot of big targets!). This is very important to get Betty in play off your own kills too, right where you want her. Wait till the Pandora player is done activating, blast a sorrow near Pandora and pop Betty, kill another sorrow, gain fast, and if you're bold you can even go for Pandora herself. Just keep a 10+ handy to vanish again.
2) Blasts! Hit the sorrows (or anything really) near her with blasts and catch Pandora in the template too. Her defensive abilities won't trigger. (Crooked men can help with this, if you have them. They also have quite a lot of wounds so that helps as well.)
3) Keep a couple of extra soul stones for Nico. They can be used to heal if needed, but you can also get off an almost irresistible Decay or even a Rigor Mortis.
4) Read the errata for Pandora and link. They really make a difference.

No more time right now, so this'll have to do. There are a lot of anti-Pandy tactics guides on the forum, just poke around a little.

[Dark_Trainer]

Thanks for the tips. Couple of questions.

1) Why soulstones to heal? Wouldn't that just do 2 healing even if the 5 template hit him, so why soulstone it?

2) I did try to kill the sorrows, he kept healing with Candy, but i did kill off about 3 sorrows and teddy by end of game (although I was tabled). The big problem was the unlimited Pacify/WP tests. He pushed pandora 4" each time I failed to basically IN the center of my crew. Then he cast pacify on pretty much my whole army causing almost every model to take 3 dmg points for two turns. For a zero action that just seemed overpowered as she cast 3 more spells after that...i mean seriously.

[Teal]

Also, keep in mind, unless I'm horribly mistaken, Pandora's WP duels do count as attacks, and thus you can use Zombie Fodder against them.

[Lucidicide]

2) I did try to kill the sorrows, he kept healing with Candy, but i did kill off about 3 sorrows and teddy by end of game (although I was tabled). The big problem was the unlimited Pacify/WP tests. He pushed pandora 4" each time I failed to basically IN the center of my crew. Then he cast pacify on pretty much my whole army causing almost every model to take 3 dmg points for two turns. For a zero action that just seemed overpowered as she cast 3 more spells after that...i mean seriously.

But if Pandora fails once, that's the end of the chain. Vs Pandora I've always found it best to save up all my cards for just stopping her activation -- most of the time she will be the one doing the heavy lifting for her whole crew. Also, with the changes to Link, Sorrows won't be quite as effective in my opinion.

He kept healing the Sorrows with Candy? With only 4Wds a piece, you should be able to reliably kill at least one per turn if they are in any kind of range of you.

As I said, I've had the best luck using my highest cards defensively against Pandora herself. If she gets off Misery or whatever gives you the :-fate you're in a lot of trouble. If you stop Pacify early, it isn't nearly so devastating. In the meantime, wipe out her crew (if she's in the middle of yours those Sorrows should be easy pickings), then worry about her.

[Ropetus]

Some useful models in the Resser range against her:

1) Belles. These give an absurdly high Wd to SS ratio at 8 Wd for a 4 SS model. As Pandora usually deals 1 Wd per Wp Duel these can take a lot of punishment from her. Also, you can Lure Sorrows to get killed before they become a problem.

2) Crooked Men. They have a Blast producing attack to avoid Expose Fears. Also has a solid Wp of 6 and 7 Wd. Shafted can be useful to control the activations of your enemies.

3) The Hanged. Has a crazy good Wp 7 to defend against Pandy. Also, if you ever get to Strike her successfully in melee with it, Pandora is pretty much done for.

Overall bringing more cheap models is the way to go against her as that gives you more Wd buffer. Also, avoid bunching up so she cannot cast Project Emotions on more than one of your models at a time.

And all her tricks are definitely attacks so you can use Zombie Fodder to avoid them.

-Ropetus

[Dark_Trainer]

Also, keep in mind, unless I'm horribly mistaken, Pandora's WP duels do count as attacks, and thus you can use Zombie Fodder against them.

UGH! I was voted against this being told it's a WP test/duel and not an 'attack' like Ranged 'attack', melee 'attack', etc. Is there any place to reference that? Nico was taken out turn 4 because of this :(

[Guild Master]

Taken from the errata document:

“In Malifaux, an attack is defined as:
• Any Talent, Action, or Spell targeting an enemy
model.
• Any Talent, Action, or Spell that inflicts damage or
requires a Resist Duel targeting a friendly or
neutral model.
• All Auras and Pulses that inflict damage or require
a Resist Duel are also considered attacks.”

I think that shows that its an "attack".

Dan.

[jay]

There's that tricky errata again Matt. Well your game last night would probably have gone way different if not for that.

[Dark_Trainer]

Taken from the errata document:

“In Malifaux, an attack is defined as:
• Any Talent, Action, or Spell targeting an enemy
model.
• Any Talent, Action, or Spell that inflicts damage or
requires a Resist Duel targeting a friendly or
neutral model.
• All Auras and Pulses that inflict damage or require
a Resist Duel are also considered attacks.”

I think that shows that its an "attack".

Dan.

Thanks, I'll have to go for that rematch! :)

[TimeLapse]

Thats good to know as well! Its not something that has come up in games yet but so I never looked it up but yes its good to know about targeting.

[dakrulz55]

i found that jack daw does fairly well against pandora since most her dmg comes from abilities wich doesnt hinder jack in the least. also tearing up pandoras hand leaves her less options to do stuff to your models so you can go after her army while jadck plays with pandy.

[Natty]

#1: Always kill the doppelganger first. I know people say kill the sorrows first, but the doppelganger is the real threat. A well played doppelganger copying emotional trauma will be spitting out double digit wounds once Pandora activates.

The doppelganger nearly doubles Pandora's wound output. If they aren't fielding a doppelganger, then they are a bad Pandora player and you should probably win anyway.

#2: Always keep a zombie or two in range of Nicodem even in the first couple turns. If these means taking and killing your own canine remains, so be it. If Pandora gets a high crow and makes your Nicodem fall back, it is game over. You need to be able to push that attack off onto a zombie when you see her cast with a crow.

#3: When Nicodem has a chance to activate, look at where Pandora is, if she is next to an opposing model and within range of Nico, then go ahead and start blasting away at your own model to hit her with blasts (a good Pandora player wont leave Sorrows or your models next to her for you to target). If there is no enemy models near her or she is out of range, just wait to activate Nicodem if possible. Unless you play to kill Pandora's minions and totally ignore Pandora, never activate Nicodem first. He is the only thing that will be able to kill a good Pandora player's Pandora.

Move you model up and DON'T attack Pandora. Ever. Just stand next to her. If you move up and attack her, she gets a free 4" push out of blast range when you inevitably fail the wp->wp. Blast your own model 3 times with Decay and hit Pandora with the blasts. If you have Crooked men, feel free to do this again, even if it means killing your own model. You NEED to run Pandora out of soulstones by forcing her to prevent all that blast damage.

Seriously, don't even bother directly attacking her with most models when she has soulstones left, it isn't worth it, you are most likely giving her a free move, taking a damage, and wasting an activation that could kill something else, and at best are making her spend a soulstone and still giving her the free move anyway.

There is more but I should prolly get back to work...

[Griffsnog]

Always kill the healer first. Or at least force them to heal themselves instead of their friends.

Do anything you can to force the player to loose cards, if you have ever played a TCG you know when your hand is larger than your opponent's you have the upper hand no matter how grim things seem as you have more options even if they aren't very good. It's still intimidating.

I play a template army in 40k and it's nasty unless I'm fighting a low model count army. If you keep your stuff strews thin away from pandora you have a better chance of decreasing her effectiveness. Just play around her threat zone and ignore her. Above all play the mission, don't play against the enimies crew.

Let us know what seems to work or works better we can help develop your strategy even further.

[Dark_Trainer]

Always kill the healer first. Or at least force them to heal themselves instead of their friends.

Do anything you can to force the player to loose cards, if you have ever played a TCG you know when your hand is larger than your opponent's you have the upper hand no matter how grim things seem as you have more options even if they aren't very good. It's still intimidating.

I play a template army in 40k and it's nasty unless I'm fighting a low model count army. If you keep your stuff strews thin away from pandora you have a better chance of decreasing her effectiveness. Just play around her threat zone and ignore her. Above all play the mission, don't play against the enimies crew.

Let us know what seems to work or works better we can help develop your strategy even further.

My mission was reconnoiter, and her's was claim jump (center table). Couldn't avoid her well...and I learned to late my dogs didn't count towards holding reconnoiter! :(

[dakrulz55]

My mission was reconnoiter, and her's was claim jump (center table). Couldn't avoid her well...and I learned to late my dogs didn't count towards holding reconnoiter! :(

dogs work well wen they hold hands. plus you got like 3 ways to make em have friends.

[Dark_Trainer]

dogs work well wen they hold hands. plus you got like 3 ways to make em have friends.

3 ways? I only know Mortimer can make them companion, who else?

[Hand_of_Vecna]

Nicodem can make them of course since he can use that same 1 counter to make a belle or necropunk isn't reccomended and sebastian and mcmourning can both make them.

[Dark_Trainer]

Nicodem can make them of course since he can use that same 1 counter to make a belle or necropunk isn't reccomended and sebastian and mcmourning can both make them.

We're talking about Canine remains and using Companion on them. Mortimer has a zero action to companion an undead model. What other models in the resurrectionist group can Companion dogs, to start the pack mentality? That was the question.

[chaosobscuros]

The canine remains can companion each other...

[Dark_Trainer]

The canine remains can companion each other...

No, only if a dog receives companion from something (example: Mortimer), then does the pack instinct ability trigger. They do not have companion or can they trigger it alone :(

Unless I'm missing an errata somewhere, that's how the card is written.

[chaosobscuros]

Okay, I misread your initial question. I was referring to the Canine Remains finishing the chain activation from Mortimer.

I can't speak for dakrulz55's intent, but your Canine Remains lose Insignificant when they are close to one another. This can help you in Recon and such.

[LastDinosaur]

There's Sebastian aswell.. :)

[Dark_Trainer]

but your Canine Remains lose Insignificant when they are close to one another. This can help you in Recon and such.


WAIT, really!? I need to read the card again, but I had no idea 2 canines counted as a CAPTURING model?

[hippieshopper]

WAIT, really!? I need to read the card again, but I had no idea 2 canines counted as a CAPTURING model?

Yeah, also Sebs can use (0) Here Boy! with any poochie within 6" then that poochie can use Man's Best Friend effectively creating a chain provided your other dogs are within 6" of the first one.