Zoriada Question?

[Iamwyrd]

OK as everybody knows Zoriada has proper manners, which is unless focused or channeled attack flips against her receive a negative flip. My question:

Is any spell that targets a model (in this case zoriada) considered an attack against them?

The reason why I ask this is becauce my friend just got Pandora's box, and is running it as though there is a 12" bubble of doom around her where if you fail a willpower test in this 12" you will potentially take 7 wounds. He targeted my zoriada with project emotions and said it isn't an attack against her because it doesn't deal damage, is this correct, or would he still flip for propper manners because he is targeting Zoriada?

Thanks all
Josh

[tenabrae]

From the rulebook/errata



In Malifaux, an attack is defined as:
●● Any Talent, Action, or Spell targeting an enemy model.
●● Any Talent, Action, or Spell that inflicts damage or requires a
Resist Duel targeting a friendly or neutral model.
●● All Auras and Pulses that inflict damage or require a Resist Duel
are also considered attacks.


So the short answer is yes, pretty much anything you do to an enemy model is an 'attack'.

[Iamwyrd]

cool that's what I thought. Thanks

[Nate]

Alright I have three questions that have been buggin' me:
1) Is the author of the Zoraida strategy guide correct in saying that conduit is an effect on the Voodoo Doll?
2) If you succesfully cast Obey on an enemy model that is in base-to-base w/ another enemy model, is the model affected by the spell considered to be in melee or not?
3) When the Voodoo Doll is summoned into play, on the Official Errata it says under Companion (pg. 7), "A model may receive Companion (model) during the course of another model’s activation. In this case the model receiving Companion (model) activates immediately following the end of the other (model’s) activation as per Simultaneous Activation.”, so does the newly summoned Voodoo Doll get to activate immediately after Zoraida or not?

[Natty]

1) Is the author of the Zoraida strategy guide correct in saying that conduit is an effect on the Voodoo Doll?


Yes. So for instance, Papa Loco could not shrug off being affected by the Voodoo doll, but Perdita could remove the effect on the Voodoo doll (notice the difference between affect and effect in that sentence).



2) If you succesfully cast Obey on an enemy model that is in base-to-base w/ another enemy model, is the model affected by the spell considered to be in melee or not?


While you control the model, the opponents models are no longer considered friendly. So, for example, you couldn't use the Nurse to give someone a massive dose, killing them at the end of the turn. Since they are no longer friendly, that means that you are affected by their melee range as per normal (disengaging, shooting, etc).



3) When the Voodoo Doll is summoned into play, on the Official Errata it says under Companion (pg. 7), "A model may receive Companion (model) during the course of another model’s activation. In this case the model receiving Companion (model) activates immediately following the end of the other (model’s) activation as per Simultaneous Activation.”, so does the newly summoned Voodoo Doll get to activate immediately after Zoraida or not?


That is a good question. This one I am not 100% sure on because it seems to me you could read this either way. When I first read voodoo doll, I read it as if you do not get to activate the doll immediately after summoning because it didn't "gain" the companion ability, it just has it already when it gets summoned.

[Monkeyclops]

From my understanding, for models that have Companion (Model) you have to announce all the models you are companioning with before activating any of them. So since the newly summoned Voodoo is not on the table when Zoraida activates you can not select it with Companion and thus it cannot activate immediatly after her.

The wording about models gaining companion during another models activation are for those models that have a(0) Companion (Model) ability. As a (0) ability it is something you use during that models turn and thus do not have to announce companions at the start of the models activation. Instead, at any point during that models activation you may use the (0) ability to grant another model companion, in which case it will actiate immediatly after the model using the (0) ability.

[Natty]

From my understanding, for models that have Companion (Model) you have to announce all the models you are companioning with before activating any of them. So since the newly summoned Voodoo is not on the table when Zoraida activates you can not select it with Companion and thus it cannot activate immediatly after her.

The wording about models gaining companion during another models activation are for those models that have a(0) Companion (Model) ability. As a (0) ability it is something you use during that models turn and thus do not have to announce companions at the start of the models activation. Instead, at any point during that models activation you may use the (0) ability to grant another model companion, in which case it will actiate immediatly after the model using the (0) ability.

Yes, this is how I read it too.

I was just saying that I think a possible argument could be made to say that "There was not a model with companion at the start of the activation. Now there is a model with companion. A model has therefore 'gained' companion."

Like I said; I don't read it to work that way, but I don't think it is stretching the imagination too far to make that kind of interpretation.

[magicpockets]

While you control the model, the opponents models are no longer considered friendly. So, for example, you couldn't use the Nurse to give someone a massive dose, killing them at the end of the turn. Since they are no longer friendly, that means that you are affected by their melee range as per normal (disengaging, shooting, etc).

Apologies if you're a rules marshal, in which case let me know. Otherwise where does it say that? With obey you're just making the model carry out a (1) action, friendly models wouldn't "know" you were controlling the target model. What you're saying is that for that instance everyone on their own crew wants to kill them as they're now an enemy, then a second later they're all best friends again.

I'm happy to be pointed to where what you say is given as fact, but as it reads you're not taking over the model, the model is just making an action controlled by you?

[Wodschow]

@the current discussion:
http://wyrd-games.net/forum/showthread.php?t=10660&highlight=obey+friendly

[magicpockets]

Thank you. Be sooooooo much easier if people did that when posting an answer :)

[jmp_mydog]

Thank you. Be sooooooo much easier if people did that when posting an answer :)

It helps to search the current rulings before, berating someone who is kind enough to give you the correct answer.

Just saying...

[Natty]

Apologies if you're a rules marshal, in which case let me know.

The rules marshalls have little sheriff badges under their names. I am just a friendly outside observer who likes to be helpful.

Then there are the developers, which are kinda above the rules marshalls as far as intent goes, but the rules marshalls are above the developers as far as rules callings go.

Think of it like this:

You take The Bug King, give him a prison shiv, then you take Wierd Sketch, and give him a prison shiv. Then you put them in a room. Nine months later you get a newborn baby.

At least I think that's how that works. No one has really explained the whole baby thing to me.

[Nate]

Awesome to know! Thanks guys (esp. Wodschow)... the answer is: while under the influence of your obey spell the model is friendly. Now... how to get my avatar to show up...

[Wodschow]

Eh..?

You're welcome, although it was Natty who answered your questions? :P

The avatar: User CP -> Edit Avatar -> Pick One -> Save Changes

http://wyrd-games.net/forum/profile.php?do=editavatar

[Nate]

Well, ya.. thanks everyone. Thanks Nathan (awesome name btw), thanks Eric, thanks paint making companies, thanks Battlefoam.... lol. :dance:

[magicpockets]

It helps to search the current rulings before, berating someone who is kind enough to give you the correct answer.

Just saying...

IIRC there's 49 pages of "current rulings" in addition to the errata, extra errata and soon to be errata. I don't mind bearing with a game I like whilst it tidies up its rules, but I haven't got time to spend flicking through hundreds of posts every time I want to check an answer.

And it was hardly a "berating" - I simply challenged what they said and said I was happy to be shown where I was wrong.

Also just saying...

[magicpockets]

Awesome to know! Thanks guys (esp. Wodschow)... the answer is: while under the influence of your obey spell the model is friendly. Now... how to get my avatar to show up...

If you take a look at http://wyrd-games.net/forum/showthread.php?t=10660&highlight=obey+friendly you'll see the ruling is "The model that is Obeyed, is not friendly to any Crew during its (1) Action or Charge" - kinda sucks fro a Zoriada POV but rules is rules :)

[Nate]

Corrected again :cussing:! That's right, an obeyed model is not friendly to ANYONE else. As pointed out in the thread linked above by our official local rules marshals. Yet again the forum has nurfed Zoraida. :club:

[Buddhanutz]

How does the ruling on obey nerf zoraida?

[bigstupidfighter]

Obey rulings don't nerf Zoraida, in fact the one people seem to dislike (the one where you can't command a model to kill itself) is easy t get around, for example walking into hazardous terrain or using an ability such as Loco's Take ya With Me! that does lethal damage to the model is still valid.

If anything, i would say she is improved since the game started, since as per the errata the Voodoo Doll causes poison 2 to the model it is connected with, and as of Book 2 she can summon a nasty little 3ss model that has the power to keep up with her incredibly fast moves.

[karn987]

Yeah, the errata to Conduit is a huge help to her and the increasing number of puppets is going to be great for her. Plus she will be able to lead the Puppet Army! So really, for an old hag, she is still getting a lot of love'n.

[alemon]

Yeah, the errata to Conduit is a huge help to her and the increasing number of puppets is going to be great for her. Plus she will be able to lead the Puppet Army! So really, for an old hag, she is still getting a lot of love'n.


gross.

[Nate]

Hmmm, the errata to obey nerfed her because: u can no longer obey masters! That speaks for itself. The second and main reason is that the Vodoo Doll can't use magical extension to cast obey on Zoraida, then have Zoraida once again funnel through her Vodoo Doll to once again obey the target of it's conduit at a positive flip. See what I'm gettin' at? The poison thing is nice... but just imo the double obey on one model anywhere on the table at a positive casting flip was much more devastating.

[Nate]

The above was stated in response to how I feel the ERRATA affected Zoraida. NOW, the second book, WOOOOOWZER, Zoraida w/ Wicked Dolls and a whole Doll army, woo hoo ty Wyrd! :clap:


Owned, not yet painted: :dreamer:zoraida :teddy

[bigstupidfighter]

I agree that looking at that errata in a vacuum, you're right it does nerf her. Personally I'm glad they disallowed Obeying Masters, since yeah, just obeying your own Master is a bit broken.

As for the dolls, I love the ability to summon Wickeds, but I still think I'd rather play her with nephilim than full on dolls. Maybe I'll turn out to be wrong and the dolls will rule, but all the new Nephilim are very powerful, and do quite a bit to improve the old ones too. :D

[Nate]

I agree whole-heartedly that nephalim got a big improvement, but the new ones actually work very well w/ the old "growing" ones. I disagree that obeying your own master (Zoraida) was broken as before now she always felt a bit weaker then other masters (don't mean to troll). But I think her special abilities (for all dolls) especially w/ the one doll henchman will play out very nicely. :fight: