Am I reading Ronin right?

[DangerousBeans]

So they get their (1) action "Run Through", which allows them to push 6" and make an attack. Their attack triggers their trigger, allowing another 4" push. They can then repeat this order of events and then use their "melee expert" attack, which then triggers the 4" move again. So they can effectively move 24" a turn, unhindered and make 3 attacks. Is this right?

Another thing with "Run Through", can they push say 3", make an attack, push 4" with their trigger and then continue the rest of their "run through" push?

I think the Viktorias and 6 Ronin might be on the cards......

[Tonytone]

The last sentence in 'Run Through' seems to be the key.
"Continue the push after resolving the Strike"
To me this reads that even if you could trigger 'Next Target' and push 4" you would still end up 'snapping back' to the end of your push.
Soooo 6" RT + 6" RT + 4" (ME strike + NT trigger) = a still respectable 16" move.

[Raintar]

Yes, walking is obsolete with Ronin.

[Lalochezia]

The last sentence in 'Run Through' seems to be the key.
"Continue the push after resolving the Strike"
To me this reads that even if you could trigger 'Next Target' and push 4" you would still end up 'snapping back' to the end of your push.
Soooo 6" RT + 6" RT + 4" (ME strike + NT trigger) = a still respectable 16" move.

There is no "snapping back."

Run through is just a 6" push, not a 6" push to any particular location. (you don't even need to push the full 6". "push this model up to...")

So, you run through and make a melee strike 3" into your 6" push. You stop during the melee strike and resolve it. You trigger "next target" and push another four inches. Then you finish the initial push, on which you had 3" remaining. (total 10") If you do the exact same thing again, and then manage to hit with your melee expert strike, yes, you may move 24".

I don't really see this as obscene. The enemy models need to be lined up just right and you have to hit every time.

It is odd, however, that run through is a (1) action that has no limit on how often you may use it. The thing that bothers me is that they have absolutely no reason to walk, and may always choose to leave another model's combat range. But that's not SO bad, their charge is only 6". There are a lot of things that can potentially get a lot more movement. (a lot more movement than 12" that is, not the highly circumstantial 24")

[Tonytone]

A 6" push IS in a direction to a location which would be measured out and indicated. Along that line of movement you must come into Melee range with an enemy that you could then strike. Trigger your 4" push if you like but once that push is complete you push right to where your initial 6" push was set to end.

If you wanted to do it like you are saying and interupt your push add in 4" and then push the rest of your 6" wherever you like you would be doing really stupid things like ' Push 3 to attack someone then push 3 in reverse to end out of melee and where you started without even using trigger movement'. It is pretty clear that is not intended.

[Lalochezia]

A 6" push IS in a direction to a location which would be measured out and indicated. Along that line of movement you must come into Melee range with an enemy that you could then strike. Trigger your 4" push if you like but once that push is complete you push right to where your initial 6" push was set to end.

If you wanted to do it like you are saying and interupt your push add in 4" and then push the rest of your 6" wherever you like you would be doing really stupid things like ' Push 3 to attack someone then push 3 in reverse to end out of melee and where you started without even using trigger movement'. It is pretty clear that is not intended.

Maybe not intended, but intent is a hard thing to tell unless someone...tells you. However, that is the way it is clearly written.

So, yes, you could push the model 3" up, attack, and then push it 3" back. There is nothing that says a push must be in a straight line (unless the ability that generates it specifically states that it does) Just like you could move a model half of its walk up and then half of its walk back all in one action, ending in the same place you started. Usually no reason to do that, but you can.

The movement portion of the ability run through simply says "push this model up its charge" which happens to be six inches. In the thread starter's scenario the ronin was only pushed 6" by run through itself. The fact that it was able to interrupt that movement with an additional push is irrelevant. No rules were broken, perfectly legal.

[Slinkdawg]

The timing rules say (p13) "If an effect causes another effect to activate while it is being resolved, pause the first effect, completely execute the newly triggered effect, and then return to the first effect at the point you paused."

Since you can interrupt the push from Run Through to make a Daisho strike and continue the push after the strike resolves, you would have to resolve the strikes and any trigger (Next Target) from the strike. Damaging the target with the strike triggers the push from next target.

The key is that the Run Through ability specifically says you interrupt, stop, and strike before moving the whole 6".

[Tonytone]

We will agree to disagree then. I still believe the push must be defined first and the last sentence clearly states 'continue the push'. This thread obviously needs to be in the rules questions forum so an official ruling can be made.

[Slinkdawg]

Agreed. It raises some questions about "push" effects as well as the timing. It's gotta go to the rules forum...

[Slinkdawg]

posted to rules forum

[DangerousBeans]

Wow, I had no idea this would cause so much controversy! I just imagined lots of ronin shooting about the place, hitting things and then hiding only to do it again next turn. Saying that there's nothing to stop you "running through" the same model twice, much like in that beat-em-up I can't remember right now. Not to mention that any ronin might turn into a Viktoria at any point! I can imagine a list full of Ronin and the Viks being *very* irritating!

[Omadon]

We will agree to disagree then. I still believe the push must be defined first and the last sentence clearly states 'continue the push'. This thread obviously needs to be in the rules questions forum so an official ruling can be made.

I do believe that you are just flat wrong here. Rules arent ment to be this clunky. Also - where does it state that you have to measure you're entire movement and plan it out beforehand? (If it does then lol, I'll shut up) The whole point of run through is the sort of thing you mentioned, where you move in, swing, and move out.

Hm. I'm not explaining this very well. Right - look at it from a development point of view. Do you think a model would be created with abilitys that look like they are designed to work together, but then placed in an enviroment where the rules prevent them from doing what their abilitys state? It would be counterintuitive and silly.

EDIT: Furthermore. I still don't see why everybodys crying, he's got 5CB and 6WD. He's made of paper!

[DangerousBeans]

Aybe but with the right cards he's still pretty accurate, not to mention the free (+) damage, and the fact that played right they're incredibly hard to pin down! Fought the Viks last night, sans Ronin. Man they're annoying!

[Lalochezia]

http://www.wyrd-games.net/forum/showthread.php?t=10210

Ronin are good. They're really good. A ronin heavy (or all ronin) Vic list is probably one of the more competitive crews. But with a Cb of 5 I'd say a far cry from broken.